• Your logins to the main site and to this support forum are NOT the same. To get access to this forum, you must be a ALL-ACCESS member (register here). You will receive login information the day you register. If you have problems logging in to the forum, please use the Contact us form. First time posting? Watch this video and Follow this posting guide

Hemangiosarcoma presumptive diagnosis

LilF

All Access Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
312
I know the usual advice is when a dog stops eating it is a big red flag they have given up. Is this the case with Gabby? The vet said that the tumor made her feel full. So maybe not the same thing as "giving up" on eating. Gabby did show some interest in some food and did take the syringed stuff. Maybe she was physically unable to eat. I am starting another thread about homeopathy and cancer. Do you know if homeopathy can rid the body of such a big tumor? Gabbys went from one side of the abdomen to the other. Does homeopathy have that potential in the case of hemangiosarcoma to rid the body of it? I read another member say that it takes time. Is the bigger the tumor in hemangiosarcoma , the bigger the chance for a rupture. Translation: would homeopathy have enough time to work before a rupture? Let me know thoughts. I would appreciate some of the trained experts, i.e. doctors on this forum as well. I initiated the homeopathy figuring I could get more help with the details here since homeopathy is a major modality of the doctors here.
 

GinnyW

All Access Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2021
Messages
275
Lil, homeopathy doesn't "work" on the manifestations of disease, such as tumors, outbreaks, inflammation, etc. A remedy works by giving the life force little clues - almost by irritating or bothering the body by showing it what that particular remedy will do. The life force, simply put, clearly sees the action of the remedy and acts to nullify it - because it is foreign and to an extent inimicable. As it does that, the same action works on the existing, matching condition in the body - the one we want to forestall. So, the remedy merely points the body in a healing direction - the body does the work.
Now, whether the disease condition can be fixed is always going to be up to the body - the resources it has, the strength, the potential, the great nutrition, any other support from nutriceuticals. The vigor of the body is what determines the progress of a disease. So, homeopathy provides direction - that is all it can do. There is no way to say how long, or even if, it might take. If the body is strong enough, it will take the help and turn things around. Yes, homeopathy can help. But there are no guarantees in any given case - it's just not how it works.

You did awesomely with poor Gabby. I hope you will continue to learn and apply all this to your other baby, and all future ones. The big principles are the same, suffering and disease respond in the same ways. Stick around and stay tuned for what you can learn here.

Blessings on you.
 
Last edited:

AlysonR

All Access Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2020
Messages
77
I saw part of an online conference on homeopathy for humans. Two statements stuck with me. 1) Arnica (and maybe other remedies) work best when they are applied early in the disease process. If you *think* you'll be getting a bruise, say, or sore muscles from over exertion, taking or applying Arnica before these things actually manifest can forestall the process (this is my experience as well). This also applies, in my experience, to colds and flu. The earlier in the process you apply the remedy, the more likely you are to avoid severe disease. 2) Homeopathic remedies are manufactured differently than they used to be. The guy who said this said he rarely used a dilution less than 200C (collective gasps from the professional homeopaths on this forum, I'm sure). I don't have any real life reference for this second statement -- except when I used 200C Arnica for the first time just before (yes, before) I had surgery -- on the advice of my holistic doctor. I did also take pain meds for a couple days after the surgery, but then I got tired of falling asleep all the time, so I just went with homeopathy. It works.

I've heard of miracle cases where homeopathy did indeed turn around a terminal case, but my impression is that is rare. Perhaps others can chime in here.
 

LilF

All Access Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
312
I saw part of an online conference on homeopathy for humans. Two statements stuck with me. 1) Arnica (and maybe other remedies) work best when they are applied early in the disease process. If you *think* you'll be getting a bruise, say, or sore muscles from over exertion, taking or applying Arnica before these things actually manifest can forestall the process (this is my experience as well). This also applies, in my experience, to colds and flu. The earlier in the process you apply the remedy, the more likely you are to avoid severe disease. 2) Homeopathic remedies are manufactured differently than they used to be. The guy who said this said he rarely used a dilution less than 200C (collective gasps from the professional homeopaths on this forum, I'm sure). I don't have any real life reference for this second statement -- except when I used 200C Arnica for the first time just before (yes, before) I had surgery -- on the advice of my holistic doctor. I did also take pain meds for a couple days after the surgery, but then I got tired of falling asleep all the time, so I just went with homeopathy. It works.

I've heard of miracle cases where homeopathy did indeed turn around a terminal case, but my impression is that is rare. Perhaps others can chime in here.
 

LilF

All Access Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
312
So here are the homeopathics I got but too late. Maybe if I had gone to my post box BEFORE the appointment I would have made a different decision. They were sitting in the post box.....
Ruta graveolens 6C/ Ceanothus americanus LM/6 Combo. Lycopodium 30C/ Hydrastis 200C Combo. Carcinosin plus 200C Phosphorus 30C/Arnica 1M Combo for bleeds. I know what the phos/arnica is for but what are the rest indicated for with regard to her disease.

I wonder if this would have made the spleen less apt to rupture had I started right away . The cell salts combo I gave for 3 days and that is when the tumor grew...not saying that is why but I do document everything.

One homeopath told me of a dog with spondylosis that was resolved with homeopathy which is why, albeit took me longer to get onboard with the modality, but nonetheless was under the impression from that statement it could turn things around, again, as someone said also, maybe it was too late in the process.... but it seemed hard to believe a dog's spondylosis could be cured.....and disappear and have a normal back but that is what I was told.
 

AlysonR

All Access Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2020
Messages
77
One thing -- stored properly (3 ft. away from electronics like computers, tablets, cellphones (anything connected to the internet)-- and if possible, refrigerators, fans -- anything with a motor that spins something) **anyone got any other things that can affect the remedy?** -- homeopathic remedies don't go "bad". Keep these stored carefully, and the next time someone mentions that such and such might help (especially things that are high dilutions that aren't generally available in your local health food store), you'll have the remedy and can apply it immediately. I still have the Sepia 50M I got for Magic, and I will keep it and use it when indicated.

Note that spondylosis is a 'slow' disease (my aunt lived with spondylosis for many years). More time for homeopathy to have an effect.
 

LilF

All Access Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
312
I am writing this as the final follow up to this thread.... Since my last post I have gone into rewind to understand and learn. I reviewed Gabby's ultrasounds since Nov 2019. She had repeat ultrasounds in 2020 and 2021. According to the report the nodule (s) enlarged, yet there was no discussion of that with me as to what to proactively do. It was not even mentioned and I did not know until I went back after her death to tease out the data. So it does not bring her back but it DOES show we need to be advocates and ask questions about things never brought up. Then, back in May of 2021, I had her tested by VDI Labs for her CRP and Vitamin D. They suggested a cancer test, their algorithm flagged her total results to investigate further. My holistic vet did not do a cancer test per the report.....I had asked her for a cancer test when she was diagnosed for PLE back in Jan of 2021. I mention this because hitherto, I have caught all potential dragons with my dogs... Here, opportunities were missed to find this early and slay this dragon before it slayed her. So no discussion about the enlarging nodules in the spleen because they did not bulge the spleen. I would have scanned every 3 months, I would have considered splenectomy like my other dog had who had small nodules an astute vet found by palpation alone. So like I heard another holistic vet say once on the radio: "you dont' want to 'watch' a cancer grow. " That is what happened... Lastly and this is for informational purposes so others will know this.... You CANNOT tell if a splenic tumor has grown without a scan. I was told this after Gabby was put to sleep. The vet who examined her said the tumor grew really large. It was more than likely fluid not tumor. I would have made a different decision.
And to the member who suggested Facebook, thank you.... I learned from that group that an oncologist said that a dermal hemangiosarcoma may look like a lipoma and aspiration would pull out fat and blood, as the one Gabby had did.... I believe the 8 cm mass on her knee was a hemangiosarcoma as it grew fast and furious after the vet did acupuncture (related or not--timewise it came within a week of that treatment Aug 12th) I had suspected it all along it was not a lipoma and the oncologist statement seems plausible in her case.
Also, never laser, especially a dog with a highly vascular cancer. I ceased all acupuncture and laser for my other dog even though I prepaid. Nobody ever knows if their dog has a cancer. I believe as a result of laser acupuncture on Oct 30th, it was a match to a piece of paper to Gabby's hemangiosarcoma
 

AlysonR

All Access Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2020
Messages
77
Please don't beat yourself up about this. Even if the reason her abdomen was so large was fluid, what sort of fluid was it? Most likely blood. If you can't stop the tumor from bleeding, that's the end. That's what happened to my dog with hemangiosarcoma of the heart. The tumor hadn't grown larger, but it was large enough to allow massive bleeding... In any event, 20/20 hindsight is always the best. I keep beating myself up about signs I've seen that I should have heeded, the main one being a lack of energy. But it's *really hard* to face cancer, and it's so easy to pass a sign off as a symptom of something else. I believe the veterinarians have the most difficult job here because they really don't want to misdiagnose something as cancer when it isn't. That's where the VDI test sounds like it could really help. Your post has made me more determined than ever to get yearly VDI tests for my dogs after they turn 5 (the age recommended by VDI). And, of course, since the average vet knows nothing about VDI, following through with VDI's recommendations is a must. I think, given the circumstances, you did more than the vast majority of people would have to try to 'slay the dragons' as they came up. Thank you for writing this post, though, as we can all learn from your experiences.
 

LilF

All Access Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
312
@AlysonR You make a lot of sense that resonates with me once again. So the Yunnan no longer worked for your dog to stop the bleeding? Gabby's abdomen would be larger and then recede. Interesting though, She had the one "lipoma" on her stifle that got larger and smaller at times. So I suspect THAT was a hemangiosarcoma. I read an oncologist say that with those, fat and blood will be aspirated and wrongly determined to be a limpoma. Gabby's grew within about a week after her acupuncture so I am pretty certain it was a hemangio especially since it seemed to get smaller at times and then larger again---i.e. bleeding. I am glad I gave you something to benefit in the future, testing with VDI. I guess a conventional vet would have to prepare the blood and send it. Some vets are happy to do this. I had a vet retire in 2020 who gladly sent blood to Dr. Dodds and sure he would have done the VDI for me too. I heard someone say better to let a dog go a week too soon rather than a week too late. That smile of Gabby's that was absent was a huge clue as was her seeming wanting to eat but then turned away. I thought, ok, so what is the end game--was she going to get better? Was she going to feel better (the one homeopath said that when not bleeding they are normal but he thought Gabby was bleeding slowly) The goal of prolonging the syringing of the thyroid and yunnan etc... seemed futile. I wasn't successful getting her to take what she needed to prolong her" life." I was prolonging her existence.... But again, still the homeopathic regimen that was all ready to go, went untried haunts me---but it was the holiday and I feared her to bleed out and suffer before I could pick her up and take her to the hospital. I am happy she lived a good life and it seems I had her a long time. When I adopt a pet I do it with a commitment to make their happiness a priority with care and compassion. Even though I am hard on myself. I do feel that she knows that I never waivered on the promise made to myself on the day she was rescued to make her happy that she came home with me and there was no option to return her or give up on her, till death do us part.... even thought she challenged me with her houdini side for a year or so. Some of the battles with conventional vets on routine practices was stressful but we did it .. Nothing harmful going into her. We found non damaging ways to deal with fleas, ticks, mosquitos, and diseases to the jaundiced eye of her vets... She did not live a life of lingering downsliding. That is a victory for her and me. She did win that battle and we all lose the final battle at some point...
 

MauraF

All Access Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
40
LilF, I have been off the forum for five weeks and so have just caught up today about the conclusion of your journey with Gabby. Please accept my heartfelt condolences and a big, metaphysical bear hug. You are such a terrific Mom and I have learned so much through the generous sharing of your experiences. You've enjoyed wonderful support from some of the members. I was rooting for the two of you up until the very end. You'll never know how many lives you've saved with your knowledge and encouragement for early and aggressive intervention. You are so right! Timing is everything. When Joli had her splenectomy, the vet told me that the largest was ready to rupture at any time. I am so grateful for your openness in detailing the highs and lows. Hoping that loving memories will comfort and console you as you move through the grieving process.
 

Weekly Digest

Weekly Digest
Subscribe/Unsubscribe

Members online

Latest posts

Top Bottom