• Everyone can read this forum. To post on this forum, you must be a Community or ALL-ACCESS member. You can register here. If you are a member, to login use your email address for the username and the same password you use for the main site. If you have problems logging in to the forum, please use the Contact us form.

Complications after starting raw

EllyJ

Community Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
49
Hello all,

Here are the stats:

Pumpkin
16
Neutered Male
Lhasa Apso/Maltese
14 lbs.
BEAM seems to be improving.
Started a Raw/homecooked diet about two weeks ago.
Vaccination history: minimal, mostly rabies. Low exposure to conventional flea control/heartworm meds/other medications.
I started him on a Raw/homecooked diet about two weeks ago. He took right to it. But after giving him a large piece of liver and then him possibly ingesting some spoiled meat, he's had excessive urination (I THINK this started after that, but I'm not 100%), diarrhea, sometimes bloody, and vomiting. In the past few days, his vomiting has stopped, his stool was firm yesterday evening, and BEAM.... he is acting like a puppy again.
I brought him to the Emergency Vet yesterday. I declined all diagnostics except for the bloodwork. (Diagnostics attached). They found mild kidney and liver issues, and he was dehydrated. They recommended fluid IV for dehydration, urinalysis, etc etc. I declined everything. They said that raw beef (which he was on) can cause liver issues. (Is that true?) I took him home, and he made a solid poop. This morning, he's in a great mood. I want to take care of him, but I don't want to be perfectionistic with his health. I mean, I have issues, too! I'm worried about the excessive urination, though. It's still going on. The diarrhea/vomiting, I think, was caused by the large piece of liver and spoiled meat, and I think that's probably over. What should I do ? Should I go back and get a urinalysis? Should I keep giving Cranberry extract? How long should I wait for this to get better?

Oh, two days ago, I started him on Olive Leaf and Slippery Elm. He's been on Cranberry extract for a week, 400mg 2-3 times a day. (He's had a history of UTI, so I thought this may be one again.) I've also been doing Acupressure on him.

I also wanted to get dental work done on him. He has terrible teeth, and honestly, I didn't do anything about it because I thought it was just a matter of bad breath, but I recently heard that dental issues are painful. Their dental estimate was $1500-$3000. Is it worth it? How much pain is he in? Like I said, most of the time his BEAM is good. He's spry and has a good appetite. He is aggressive with big dogs who give him a bad vibe and can be a little uptight, but other than that, he is very friendly and happy-go-lucky.

Thanks for any help you can provide!
Elly and Pumpkin
  1. Your pet's name
  2. Approximate age
  3. Sex
  4. Neutering status
  5. Breed
  6. Approximate weight
  7. What's their BEAM (behavior, energy, appetite, mood)
  8. Diet
  9. Vaccination history/exposure to toxins, other medication
  10. Primary problem, when it began, and if there was anything else happening around that time
  11. Is the condition better or worse from exercise, heat, cold, time of day, certain foods, emotional upset, being touched, excitement, etc?
  12. Has any diagnostic work been done? Diagnosis is available (you can attach your diagnostic tests to the post if you have them)
  13. Current and previous treatment
  14. Other health concerns
 
Last edited:

Dr. Jeff

Administrator
Moderator
Veterinarian
Joined
Feb 23, 2017
Messages
5,182
Hey Elly!

Thanks for asking about Pumpkin.

He's a lucky boy to have a guardian as dedicated as you.
They said that raw beef (which he was on) can cause liver issues. (Is that true?)
Nope. However, a raw diet will increase cellular energy and the ability of his body to express itself through signs and symptoms. Blood test abnormalities, just like any other symptom, are just a reflection of the balance of his internal energy system.

This balance helps determine if any cell, gland or tissue can do its job.

What should I do ?
You're already doing it! And the more things you can focus on which make him happy, and get him out in nature, the better.

IMHO,the most important thing at this point in his life is his being happy and connected with you. Enjoy these senior days, months and years.
I recently heard that dental issues are painful. Their dental estimate was $1500-$3000. Is it worth it? How much pain is he in?
BEAM directly reflects pain.

most of the time his BEAM is good.

What's his BEAM score?
(Diagnostics attached
BTW-The file I see is for the dentistry estimate (not the test results).
 

EllyJ

Community Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
49
Hey Elly!

Thanks for asking about Pumpkin.

He's a lucky boy to have a guardian as dedicated as you.

Nope. However, a raw diet will increase cellular energy and the ability of his body to express itself through signs and symptoms. Blood test abnormalities, just like any other symptom, are just a reflection of the balance of his internal energy system.

This balance helps determine if any cell, gland or tissue can do its job.


You're already doing it! And the more things you can focus on which make him happy, and get him out in nature, the better.

IMHO,the most important thing at this point in his life is his being happy and connected with you. Enjoy these senior days, months and years.

BEAM directly reflects pain.

most of the time his BEAM is good.

What's his BEAM score?

BTW-The file I see is for the dentistry estimate (not the test results).

Hey Dr. Jeff!

Thanks for your reply. Sorry for the delay... holidays.

So it sounds like you're saying this is all par for the course, right? That it's natural for him to be having these symptoms... he's detoxing?

I will attach his bloodwork results.

It's hard to put a number to BEAM, but what comes to mind is 7. He seems better; His stools are firmer (although he had some soft stool after I gave him leftover cooked beef chunks....with a liiiiitttttle bit of stew on them..., or maybe it was a continuation of his prior problem?). Until yesterday, he was still peeing a LOT, but it was better this morning. I'll keep an eye on him. It's been about two weeks, though, of this excessive urination.

We go to the park almost daily, and he really enjoys that, lol.

I'll attach his bloodwork. Thanks for any further advice you can give.

Best,
Elly and Pumpkin
 
Last edited:

Dr. Jeff

Administrator
Moderator
Veterinarian
Joined
Feb 23, 2017
Messages
5,182
So it sounds like you're saying this is all par for the course, right?
Yup!! And his stools should continue to improve.
It's hard to put a number to BEAM, but what comes to mind is 7. He seems better; His stools are firmer (although he had some soft stool after I gave him leftover cooked beef chunks....with a liiiiitttttle bit of stew on them..., or maybe it was a continuation of his prior problem?). Until yesterday, he was still peeing a LOT, but it was better this morning. I'll keep an eye on him. It's been about two weeks, though, of this excessive urination.
Thanks so much for mentioning these specific symptoms Elly.

BEAM is separate from things like stools, urination, etc. The BEAM score is a direct reflection of happiness and a deeper indicator of internal balance (whereas the other individual symptoms are more superficial reflections of balance).

For example, it's much more concerning to see BEAM drop vs. horrible diarrhea, or vomiting, or an ear inflammation (often incorrectly labeled as an infection).

You may want to stop any cooked meat is it can increase diarrhea (tho. raw is fine).

Regarding his test results, the most interesting thing IMHO is the more than doubling of "allergy" cells (eosinophils).

Perhaps consider a fecal PCR that includes a test for whipworms. And/or a trial of Panacur (a very benign oral dewormer).
 

EllyJ

Community Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
49
So I can just do a trial of Panacur and forego the test, right?

Thanks so much! I'm grateful for this forum. It got really confusing navigating Western/Eastern, but HA! makes it easier. Thanks for being there. E
 

Dr. Jeff

Administrator
Moderator
Veterinarian
Joined
Feb 23, 2017
Messages
5,182
So I can just do a trial of Panacur and forego the test, right?
Sure! Your vet can provide it and you can even use the OTC version of fenbendazole/Panacur (no prescription required):

 

EllyJ

Community Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
49
P.S. He had kennel cough a few months ago, and since then, he has that funny breathing when he moves sometimes. I gave him a Droscera remedy yesterday. Do you think that'll work? If not, what would you recommend? I've been doing acupressure on him, and tried giving him honey (he didn't like it). TIA
 

Dr. Jeff

Administrator
Moderator
Veterinarian
Joined
Feb 23, 2017
Messages
5,182
Do you think that'll work? If not, what would you recommend?
Ooh, great questions Elly!

They bring up the important issue of any symptom that arises after a stressor (in this case, funny breathing after kennel cough).

Homeopathic medicines that help restore balance (and that can help the body eliminate abnormal symptoms) need to be chosen on the totality of current and historical symptoms.

The answer therefore it depends (on Pumpkin's totality).

In some cases a remedy chosen primarily based on the NWS (never well since...) can indeed be curative of the health challenge.

For Pumpkin, perhaps wait a day or 2 (or 3) to see what his body and BEAM "say" after the Drosera dose from yesterday.
 

EllyJ

Community Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
49
Dr. Jeff, he still has the stympms. His BEAM is good. Any other suggestions?
TIA,
Elly
 

Dr. Jeff

Administrator
Moderator
Veterinarian
Joined
Feb 23, 2017
Messages
5,182
Sure!

Perhaps you could be super specific about what exactly his symptoms are?
 

EllyJ

Community Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
49
Yeah, random times when he takes deep breaths, gets up, etc., he has that slight "honking" sound. It lasts for maybe a second or two.

Thanks for any help you can provide
 

Dr. Jeff

Administrator
Moderator
Veterinarian
Joined
Feb 23, 2017
Messages
5,182
It's hard to put a number to BEAM, but what comes to mind is 7
That's pretty darn good. Especially for an older pup.

8 or above is ideally where I like to see pets (and me).

What was his BEAM like before the cough started?
 

EllyJ

Community Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
49
I just read on another thread that dogs' pain manifests as restlessness, uneasiness, etc. He does have that sometimes, so maybe it's not a 7, although he's spry and upbeat a lot of the time, so I don't know.

Before the kennel cough, his BEAM was roughly the same. We'll get dental work for him in the next few weeks, so I think that will increase his BEAM even further. Thanks, doctor!
 

Dr. Jeff

Administrator
Moderator
Veterinarian
Joined
Feb 23, 2017
Messages
5,182
You're welcome Elly.
 

EllyJ

Community Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
49
Just following up on this. I've been waiting for a response for a couple of days!

To give more detail and to reiterate the whole situation, I just searched YouTube for Kennel Cough sounds to make sure he indeed had kennel cough. Theirs all sounded much tamer than his. He seemed to have trouble breathing. His whole body would tense up, his thoracic cavity would be moving, and he'd have trouble taking a breath along with this intense, "snort-like" noise. He's had this on and off over the years, but it always passed within a few minutes, so I didn't think much of it. I never knew what it was, and still don't. After this latest bout (which I believed was kennel cough because it happened right after we started going to the dog park, and it last for about a week or so), I would hear small sounds of it now and then. I've recently started paying more attention, and I've noticed that it's every time he takes a deep breath and sometimes when he moves. I suspect he even prevents himself from breathing too deeply sometimes. I've tried acupressure and Drosera, all to no avail. He has a vet visit in two weeks. Is there anything you can recommend that's holistic? I think this can be fixed. I don't want to put him on medication. I'd appreciate it so!

@Dr. Christina @Dr. Sara @Dr. Jeff
 
Last edited:

Dr. Jeff

Administrator
Moderator
Veterinarian
Joined
Feb 23, 2017
Messages
5,182
Thanks so much Elly for pointing me to this thread with your question about Pumpkin's cough!

He's had this on and off over the years, but it always passed within a few minutes
Ah, thanks as well for providing the context needed to unravel this.

It sounds like, because he is genetically and morphologically (his breed) predisposed to tracheal and respiratory issues.

The acute kennel cough activated "latent psora" (a homeopathy term).

We are probably looking at a chronic energetic imbalance that you can deal with 1 of 3 ways.

1. When possible, avoid situations that trigger the cough

2. Support his body while it does its best (based on his available cellular energy/vitality) to heal.

One way to do this is using "Throat Coat" tea + manuka honey:


3. Cure the underlying energetic imbalance. You did this with a trained vet homeopath.

A.S.C (aka the "ask" method) describes all of the healing possibilities for most (all?) chronic/"mystery" dis-eases.
 

EllyJ

Community Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
49
Thanks so much Elly for pointing me to this thread with your question about Pumpkin's cough!


Ah, thanks as well for providing the context needed to unravel this.

It sounds like, because he is genetically and morphologically (his breed) predisposed to tracheal and respiratory issues.

The acute kennel cough activated "latent psora" (a homeopathy term).

We are probably looking at a chronic energetic imbalance that you can deal with 1 of 3 ways.

1. When possible, avoid situations that trigger the cough

2. Support his body while it does its best (based on his available cellular energy/vitality) to heal.

One way to do this is using "Throat Coat" tea + manuka honey:


3. Cure the underlying energetic imbalance. You did this with a trained vet homeopath.

A.S.C (aka the "ask" method) describes all of the healing possibilities for most (all?) chronic/"mystery" dis-eases.
Thanks, Dr. Jeff, for the response. Regarding, "A", do you recommend he get the Bordatella vaccine? (We go to the park most days of the week, and he meets lots of dogs).
Regarding "C", I didn't work with a trained vet homeopath. I just read on the internet that Drosera is good for kennel cough. I gave one dose. I was thinking of giving another dose, or making a cocktail of Phosphorus, Drosera, Spongia, Ipecac, and Arnice. What do you think?

Thanks,
Elly
 

Dr. Jeff

Administrator
Moderator
Veterinarian
Joined
Feb 23, 2017
Messages
5,182
do you recommend he get the Bordatella vaccine?
No (IMHO).
I didn't work with a trained vet homeopath. I just read on the internet that Drosera is good for kennel cough. I gave one dose. I was thinking of giving another dose, or making a cocktail of Phosphorus, Drosera, Spongia, Ipecac, and Arnice. What do you think?
Book an intake evaluation with a trained vet homeopath if you're able to do so. Many of us will work virtually, along with your regular vet, as part of your vet care team.
 

Weekly Digest

Weekly Digest
Subscribe/Unsubscribe

Members online

Latest posts

Top Bottom