Concerns for my cat's upcoming dental: advice needed on medications to be used by traditional (but open) vet

[LisaDi]

hi all, i'm looking for some input about my cat's upcoming dental.
Tagging: @Dr. Jeff, @Dr. Christina

EDITING to include the following:
Had a convo with the vet today and she talked about my concerns and was very patient and kind. She offered to substitute Onsior for the meloxicam, and offered to give clindomicin or clavamox as antibiotic . Any feed back on those please? ^-^

i might even postpone it until i get full clarity and reassurance that she is not going to be given anything harmful! it took me over a year to find a vet that i feel comfortable with to do the procedure. I found a vet who is not holistic (there sadly are none where we live) but was willing to work with me and was very gracious when i said i might not be comfortable w convenia shot and that she 'd offer other antibiotic alternatives (although i don't yet know what those options are).
However, i'm concerned that the vet is suggesting something easily well known that is not safe for cats - i did not have to dig to find horrible dangers of 'meloxicam' and how it should not be rx'ed to cats.

My cat is approx 7 - we don't know for sure, she was a street kitty, had one owner before me , who adopted her after finding her on the streets. the previous owner got her spayed at a free clinic, they tipped her ear, and presumably had all the shots done then. Under my care she had a required Purevax Rabies 1 in July 2023, and also in Nov 23 got convenia, and prednisolone due to bald patches and possible rodent ulcers, and shortly after that developed a constipation problem which hasn't been totally solved yet. she's purposely not had any further shots in my care. NOTE that prior to the vax in july 23 there were no lasting or concerning health problems of hers under my care for that first roughly year. the skin issues developed in november, and after the november meds she developed the constipation.

Answering other required info here: Her name is Charlie, she's approx 7, spayed, just over 10 lbs and small framed, BEAM - behavior has changed in last year or so, energy is ok but down a bit from last year, appetite is good!, mood is sometimes i see the old Charlie she was like a puppy, and now it's like bipolar almost - the other side gets grumpy, growly, hissy, VERY anxious. recently, picking her up 9 times out of 10 has become unpleasant for her adn human. her whole body tenses up and she will cry to be let down, and then pant if she's upset. sometimes she will hiss at random if i approach her and don't even touch her. other times fine

I have included the dental estimate here.

It's Dexmedetomidine Injectable, Ketamine Inj 100 mg/ml inj, Buprenorphine .3 mg/ml, Bupivacaine .5% per ml, and then the Meloxicam , and Eloxioral / Meloxidyl suspension, and convenia injection.

1) what alternatives can i ask for instead of anything harmful here? is there a better antibiotic? certainly need a better alternative to the meloxicam items, right?!

2) what can i give my cat that is natural and not a drug, which can help with her PAIN after the procedure, and also help with DETOXING?

3) what else should i know/be aware of / work on getting for her to help her recover? i'm very nervous about all of this...

4) should i do this at all? i've heard from other vets we've seen , as well as from our current vet that she has gum issues / gingivitis, likely resorption on at least one or more teeth from visual exam, and plaque is obvious.

I wouldn't be wanting to do this given risks and how i feel against conventional medicine unless necessary. However, since she's exhibited increasing notable behavioural changes in the past year, from a happy go lucky little cat (i'd compare her behavior to a puppy!) who never hissed or growled, to hissing multiple or more times a day, now hating to be picked up, obviously something is bothering her i can tell. She is still on miralax for the poop issue, which is the only bad thing, every time i try to wean her off completley it she gets backed up so i need ot transition off with alternatives, but my guess is the dental problems are also causing her pain. She's also been sleeping a lot more lately, has a normal appetite though, but i've noticed her metabolism slowed down.

Also, she periodically (not always) has these bald patches of fur, which started in nov 23 as i'd mentioned. she has one now. i think she may bite it off? i will include a picture of one that developed recently. Shd had fleas over the summer and she was biting and scratching more than usual after they were gone, and still is scratching a bit too much IMO, although the biting has thankfully gone down from what i am observing.

Thank you SO much for reading!!!

 

[Dr. Jean Hofve]

Hi Lisa! First, thank you for being such a caring and conscientious guardian for Charlie!

Tooth resorptive lesions are extremely painful and are likely contributing to her grouchiness. So the dental needs to happen. Those teeth will need extracting. The only drug I am not a fan of is ketamine, perhaps they can find an alternative for her. I don't like the way it affects cats. The rest of the protocol is fine.

For post-op pain, I use a combination of high potency Arnica, Rhus tox and Ruta graveolens to address bruising, inflammation and bone pain. It's not classical homeopathy but it's effective.

Here's more info on dental disease in cats. You didn't mention Charlie's diet but the article discusses diet effects. Dental Care for Cats | Little Big Cat - Dr. Jean Hofve

You mentioned constipation, here's an article about that: Constipated Cats | Little Big Cat - Dr. Jean Hofve Constipation is a likely reason for Charlie's reluctance to have her belly handled or be picked up. I use Vaseline to relieve acute. I know, sounds weird, but here's why: How to Use Vaseline for Cats | Little Big Cat - Dr. Jean Hofve

Because dental lesions like you describe are so painful, I do recommend going ahead with the dental as soon as possible. I can't tell you how many people called me after a rough dental with lots of extractions to say their cat is playing like a kitten again!

Please keep us posted!

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Hi Lisa and welcome to HA!

Thanks so much for making your first post about Charlie. And I second Dr. Jean's kudos about your being a conscious, compassionate and caring guardian.

I also agree 100% with Dr. Jean that this dental needs to happen soon.

However, I'm concerned that there are no dental x-rays listed on your estimate.

Do you know if this vet does dental x-rays?

For post-dental pain/discomfort I use only Arnica 10M in liquid. Dosing is whenever Charlie seems uncomfortable, restless, etc.

Ordinarily you definitely should see partial return to her puppy-like playfulness within a few days (if not sooner).

I say ordinarily because you've also given us some clues that she has an underlying energetic imbalance.

I'd suggest starting vet homeopathy so you can continue with her internal treatment after the dental.

Many vet homeopaths (including myself) treat many of our patients virtually.

If dental x-rays are not an option anywhere within a few hour drive, then perhaps stick with this vet. It's super important to have a good relationship with an open-minded local vet.

 

[LisaDi]

Hi Lisa! First, thank you for being such a caring and conscientious guardian for Charlie!

Tooth resorptive lesions are extremely painful and are likely contributing to her grouchiness. So the dental needs to happen. Those teeth will need extracting. The only drug I am not a fan of is ketamine, perhaps they can find an alternative for her. I don't like the way it affects cats. The rest of the protocol is fine.

For post-op pain, I use a combination of high potency Arnica, Rhus tox and Ruta graveolens to address bruising, inflammation and bone pain. It's not classical homeopathy but it's effective.

Here's more info on dental disease in cats. You didn't mention Charlie's diet but the article discusses diet effects. Dental Care for Cats | Little Big Cat - Dr. Jean Hofve

You mentioned constipation, here's an article about that: Constipated Cats | Little Big Cat - Dr. Jean Hofve Constipation is a likely reason for Charlie's reluctance to have her belly handled or be picked up. I use Vaseline to relieve acute. I know, sounds weird, but here's why: How to Use Vaseline for Cats | Little Big Cat - Dr. Jean Hofve

Because dental lesions like you describe are so painful, I do recommend going ahead with the dental as soon as possible. I can't tell you how many people called me after a rough dental with lots of extractions to say their cat is playing like a kitten again!

Please keep us posted!

Hi Dr. Jean, thank you so much for your reply!! what would the effects of ketamine be please, and would you reccemend anything specific i could ask to substitute?
Do you really feel the Meloxicam shot / meloxidyl oral is safe? it was immediately apparent to me on researching it within a few minutes in a holistic cats group on FB, as well as immediately on google, that not only is it not recommended for cats, but has a black box warning and is very dangerous. Based on what i read and of others' experiences i am absolutely not comfortable with this drug, and i would like to find an alternate for that, if you have any recommendations there? thank you!
Also, for the homeopathics you recommended, do you have any specific products i can look into? I'm in the US. and would those be in subtitution for the pain meds from the vet or in addition? thanks!!

Also thnak you for the constipation info - i'll look into your links very soon once i'm over this imminent dental hurtle!! Thnk you!!

 

[LisaDi]

Hi Lisa and welcome to HA!

Thanks so much for making your first post about Charlie. And I second Dr. Jean's kudos about your being a conscious, compassionate and caring guardian.

I also agree 100% with Dr. Jean that this dental needs to happen soon.

However, I'm concerned that there are no dental x-rays listed on your estimate.

Do you know if this vet does dental x-rays?

For post-dental pain/discomfort I use only Arnica 10M in liquid. Dosing is whenever Charlie seems uncomfortable, restless, etc.

Ordinarily you definitely should see partial return to her puppy-like playfulness within a few days (if not sooner).

I say ordinarily because you've also given us some clues that she has an underlying energetic imbalance.

I'd suggest starting vet homeopathy so you can continue with her internal treatment after the dental.

Many vet homeopaths (including myself) treat many of our patients virtually.

If dental x-rays are not an option anywhere within a few hour drive, then perhaps stick with this vet. It's super important to have a good relationship with an open-minded local vet.

Hi Dr Jeff @Dr. Jeff thanks so much for your reply!! Yes the x rays most certainly are something the vet and talked about as being part. Dental Scale/Polish/Xrays i believe is the third line down in the estimate i think.
Do you really feel the Meloxicam shot / meloxidyl oral is safe? it was immediately apparent to me on researching it within a few minutes in a holistic cats group on FB, as well as immediately on google, that not only is it not recommended for cats, but has a black box warning and is very dangerous. Based on what i read and of others' experiences i am absolutely not comfortable with this drug, and i would like to find an alternate for that, if you have any recommendations there?
I'm definitely not versed in homeopathics at all (except a few failed attmepts on myself years ago through professional guidance at that), but i'm not opposed to it, although if i am going ahead with her scheduled appt early next week, i won't enough time before then to implement this, but after i possibly could. i would definitely need guidance though. WOuld this be instead of the pain meds from the vet, or in addition? Thank you!

 

[Dr. Jean Hofve]

There are very few pain meds that cats can tolerate. Meloxicam is safe but only for about 3 days. After that you get the side effects called out in the black box. I don't have a problem with it short term. The other option is buprenorphine, which is wonderful, but it's a narcotic.

Cats on ketamine wake up looking at me like I'm the Giant Rat of Sumatra or some other awful monster. It looks like hallucinations. I won't use it. There are lots of options but I don't know what that clinic has, discuss with them.

There are lots of homeopathic pharmacies online. I use a few pellets, 1M, of all of those for my "dental remedy." Dr. Jeff's 10M Arnica would also work very well.

 

[LisaDi]

There are very few pain meds that cats can tolerate. Meloxicam is safe but only for about 3 days. After that you get the side effects called out in the black box. I don't have a problem with it short term. The other option is buprenorphine, which is wonderful, but it's a narcotic.

Cats on ketamine wake up looking at me like I'm the Giant Rat of Sumatra or some other awful monster. It looks like hallucinations. I won't use it. There are lots of options but I don't know what that clinic has, discuss with them.

There are lots of homeopathic pharmacies online. I use a few pellets, 1M, of all of those for my "dental remedy." Dr. Jeff's 10M Arnica would also work very well.

Thank you very much Dr. Jean! I appreciate that. i'll edit my post to include the following: Had a convo with the vet today and she talked about my concerns and was very patient and kind. She offered to substitute Onsior for the meloxicam, and offered to give clindomicin or clavamox as antibiotic . Any feedback on those please? ^-^

 

[Dr. Jeff]

WOuld this be instead of the pain meds from the vet, or in addition?

Arnica 10M frequently eliminates the need for many (or any) other pain relief drugs. Perhaps try the Arnica first and if you don't see a comfortable and happy Charlie, then you can always use both.

IMHO the most important thing to address is her energetic balance as described in:

Book - Holistic Actions!

www.holisticactions.com

 

[Dr. Jean Hofve]

Thank you very much Dr. Jean! I appreciate that. i'll edit my post to include the following: Had a convo with the vet today and she talked about my concerns and was very patient and kind. She offered to substitute Onsior for the meloxicam, and offered to give clindomicin or clavamox as antibiotic . Any feedback on those please? ^-^

Onsior is fine. I usually use clindamycin as t gets more mouth bugs but either is ok!

 

[Dr. Jean Hofve]

I will be out of range for a while but the other docs can help!

 

[LisaDi]

Arnica 10M frequently eliminates the need for many (or any) other pain relief drugs. Perhaps try the Arnica first and if you don't see a comfortable and happy Charlie, then you can always use both.

IMHO the most important thing to address is her energetic balance as described in:

Book - Holistic Actions!

www.holisticactions.com

thank you @Dr. Jeff ! i'll look forward to reading your book when it's released! could you describe what you mean by her energetic balance in a nutshell? I know what i'm thinking and obviously didn't write our whole story here, but curious what you think about that.
Should i just google liquid arnica 10m for cats to order? or should i not do this under guidance? as an update i talked with my vet today who was very kind and offered to administer Onisior instead of the meloxicam, and i think she said i'd giving it to her 3-5 days after the procedure (monday!!) if i remember correctly. i won't get detailed instructions until i'm there, but perhaps i can try to get the Arnica if someone will deliver to me over the holiday! :0

 

[LisaDi]

Onsior is fine. I usually use clindamycin as t gets more mouth bugs but either is ok!

Thank you Dr. Jean! @Dr. Jean Hofve I appreciate that input about both - that is great to hear!

 

[Dr. Jeff]

i'll look forward to reading your book when it's released!

Thank you Lisa! The ebook is available now to anyone who preorders the book.

could you describe what you mean by her energetic balance in a nutshell?

Here's a bit about this from:

The Vital Force In Homeopathy: Understanding The Life Energy That Guides Healing | Canadian College Of Homeopathic Medicine

One of the most fundamental concepts in homeopathy is the idea of the vital force—an invisible, dynamic energy that governs the health and functioning of the body. This concept has been central to homeopathic philosophy since its inception, and it continues to shape how homeopaths understand health, disease, and healing.

But what exactly is the vital force, and why does it play such a crucial role in homeopathy? In this blog, we will explore the concept of the vital force, drawing on the wisdom of the great homeopaths of the past and explaining how this idea influences modern homeopathy training and practice.

The Vital Force: The Foundation of Health and Disease

The term “vital force” refers to the life energy that animates the human body, maintaining its health and harmony. It is considered the essence of life itself, responsible for the body’s capacity to respond to illness, to heal, and to adapt to changes in the environment. The vital force is not a material entity, but rather an immaterial principle that governs the functioning of all living beings.

In the words of Samuel Hahnemann, the founder of homeopathy:

“The vital force, or that spirit-like power which animates the material body, is the driving force of life. When this force is in perfect harmony, health exists; when disturbed, disease arises.”
— The Organon of Medicine, §9

Hahnemann believed that when the vital force is out of balance or disturbed, it leads to disease. Disease, therefore, is not merely the physical manifestation of symptoms but a disruption in the energetic harmony of the body. Homeopathy seeks to restore balance to the vital force by stimulating the body’s innate ability to heal itself using homeopathic remedies.

The Vital Force and Disease: A Dynamic Imbalance

According to Hahnemann and many of the early homeopaths, disease is a result of the vital force being disturbed by internal or external factors, such as stress, trauma, or infection. This disturbance leads to an imbalance in the body’s energetic state, which eventually manifests as physical or emotional symptoms.

In this context, homeopathy is not focused solely on treating symptoms but aims to restore balance to the vital force. This is achieved by selecting remedies that resonate with the patient’s unique energetic state and stimulate the body’s natural healing response.

Constantine Hering, one of the leading figures in homeopathy, expanded on this idea, stating:

“Homeopathy treats the patient’s whole being—body, mind, and spirit—by acting on the vital force.”
— The Principles and Art of Cure by Homeopathy

The vital force is the key to understanding how homeopathic remedies work. Homeopaths do not see the body as a machine that can be fixed with external interventions. Instead, they view the body as a dynamic organism, with its own self-regulating energy system that can be restored to health when the vital force is properly stimulated.

The Role of Homeopathy in Rebalancing the Vital Force

In homeopathy, the primary goal is to correct the underlying energetic imbalance in the vital force, which will, in turn, allow the body to heal itself. Homeopathic remedies are chosen based on their ability to stimulate the vital force and restore its equilibrium. Remedies are selected on the basis of how well they reflect the vital force’s outer expression of disease, that is the patient’s symptoms. This principle is known as “like cures like,” which means that a remedy capable of producing symptoms similar to a person’s disease state can also treat those same symptoms; this occurs by stimulating the vital force according to its own unique expression.

We have many resources in the homeopathy resource area. Just email Kim at [email protected] if you need helping finding any of the homeopathy info.

Regarding Arnica and homeopathic management of Charlie's case, I'd strongly recommend that you consult 1:1 with a vet homeopath. There is no specific homeopathic medicine for cats.

Arnica is Safer and Often More Effective Than Rimadyl - Holistic Actions!

Give your injured dog or cat frequent sips of Arnica from a water bottle right after any injury. It can help by the time you get to the veterinarian.

www.holisticactions.com

Give Arnica A Chance - Dispelling Homeopathy Myths

The belief that the small dose of homeopathic medicines means they are not effective is busted by experiential evidence.

www.holisticactions.com

 

[GinnyW]

Yes; get the Arnica. 10M is fairly commonly available, in decent health food stores or pharmacies. Dissolve one pellet in water, as the others have said. This is a big "go-to" remedy which will act seemingly miraculously on pain and discomfort - and it's actual healing, not just pain relief.

I see this girl as a blank slate, ripe for assistance in getting herself straightened out. Good for you for caring so much! I can assure you that you are in the right place for support for her.