Balancing diet for dog with GI issues

[ChristineL]

Very intriguing @GinnyW - I will read and re-read your posts. In the meantime, allow me to ask...how do we incorporate snuffling sessions since treats will be given? Will that throw off the fasting regimen?

 

[GinnyW]

As I mentioned, you can gradually close down the "fasting" window, and adjust size of meals accordingly, to accommodate snuffling with lots of food. For general training, etc. I make treats quite small and go for all meat or fatty - protein and fat do not stimulate as much as carbs. When I do nails, he gets a few ounces, so I try to get this fairly close to dinner time, and watch not to give him quite as much food as otherwise. Again, perhaps revisit the reasoning for snuffling, and make sure any compromise in principles goes the way you really intended - what's really important here? For me, it would be the metabolic advantage that takes precedence, and I'll figure out everything else around that.

 

[ChristineL]

@GinnyW I studied your posts re intermittent fasting and I must say I was fascinated. It will be a training session for me as much as for my dog Hope - it's not easy not feeding her

I also came across this article today, written by Dr. Karen Becker on intermittent fasting Groundbreaking Study: How to Add Years to Your Dog's Life

 

[GinnyW]

Yes, I received that article as well, and am really pleased someone else is getting this out. I find more evidence all the time that digestion should not be a full-time occupation, and this seems especially true in times of stress and healing efforts. Thank you for posting the link!

 

[LilF]

How do you implement fasting to dogs that require thyroid at the beginning and end of the day, thereby breaking the fast. I posted a few months ago my concern for my Gabby with Protein Losing Enteropathy and bilious vomiting that she spends a lot of time eating. I hear that a small meal first thing in the morning (which she has been getting) and a small meal before bed helps with the bilious vomiting. So seems Gabby is always eating!! The entire morning is spacing out her eating and timing for thyroid pill. Gets up 730 eats, pill 2 -3hrs later, main breakfast about noon. Feed her collagen and her folate pill about 5PM, main meal about 730PM. Thyroid pill with even more food than what I would just put the pill in to hold her over and prevent bilious vomiting in the morning. Second problem is the protein losing enteropathy. Don't I have to make sure she gets enough protein so her albumin goes up? Again, abundant eating. On walks she would be disappointed if she didn't get treats which would affect her happy healing chemicals. She has "checkpoints" on the walk where she gets a treat and she always knows to look for one. If she has problems losing protein through the intestine, does it make sense I restrict her eating? Is it possible to restrict the eating with a schedule like this and with having to take pills morning and night.

 

[GinnyW]

I don't see the thyroid pill as a big issue here; my dog gets a pill twice daily, in the smallest possible bit of ground meat, away from his meal. Just do it I cannot speak to the protein-losing disease from a medical standpoint, but I think I would try to get as close as possible to really minimal feeds. Are you working with a homeopath or other really astute practitioner? What really needs to happen here is to figure out how to normalize her gut. My "gut" feeling is that constant feeding may not actually be a good answer. But then, I'm not there, and have not dealt with this. You're a really dedicated mom....

 

[LilF]

@GinnyW Less food? That won't go over wellSo since I read these posts I have been cutting down the food she gets with the thyroid pill before bed. The idea was to give her a little more so she doesn't get the bilious vomit in the morning. So far so good...will keep trying to wean the extra pieces of turkey. So, lets say she is to get so many calories per day. Do I feed all those cals in one meal? That seems like a huge amount. How do I get her cals in if I am cutting her food. Or should I cut her food so she is leaner and feed her 2 meals a day but less food? Then there is the collagen she gets about 2 hrs before her dinner meal. She has to have that to heal her gut. Trying to make this work somehow. How do you get over the psychological part of it when they expect food at a certain time. My dogs are so good at that!!! The healing happiness part of things would be compromised wouldn't it? We always read how important that is... Not working with a homeopath YET, looking into it though. Here where I am my holistic vet doesn't like to "work" and is minimal help really. I do phone consults with holistic vets. The one I trusted in NY area retired last year and so I get bits and pieces from different sources and then I have to put it all together. VERY DIFFICULT to not have one good vet that is willing to work!!

 

[GinnyW]

Well, I've done some reading on this condition. This is more what I see as a symptom of a deeper issue, and not a disease in itself. Treating it by supplying endless food is a little like putting sand into a bucket with holes in it. This is why I would like to see you address this with a savvy homeopathic veterinarian who can help remedy the basic metabolic issue. SOMEthing makes her weak in the gut; this is apparently not genetic, and can have a horde of associated issues. Now, about the food: dogs vomit easily, for a number of reasons. So vomiting itself is not necessarily an issue about which to be concerned. Yes, they vomit bile when their stomachs are empty, but only when they have EXPECTED to obtain food. The body secretes bile in expectation. So bile vomiting is not hard on them, and will be remediated by "retraining" the stomach NOT to expect food. After a few days of a schedule change there should be no vomiting.
I am unconvinced that she "needs" as much as you are feeding, considering that healing of the intestinal mucosa will not proceed when the gut is full of food. So, feed, feed, feed may be the last thing you want to do. And there are many other ways to stimulate happiness: walks, sniffs, games, grooming... Overfeeding is a drug
Collagen, OTOH, is a protein food, and can be counted as food - and most dogs are nuts for it. Bottom line: I'd like to see her get some real medical help - holistic, including homeopathy and a diet that actually encourages healing. I think the thyroid med is probably going to be a huge help, too. So, feed once, maybe twice, daily. Small amounts of real, raw meat and organs, no kibble, no fillers - feed the collagen with her food. Give her thyroid in a tiny piece of meat. Let that gut rest, and ignore any bile vomit. Get her to a good lean weight, and keep her there. Remember that the gut will only heal when it is not full of stuff. OK, now, ask more, or tell me different. You can spoil her, or you can heal her... Report back!

 

[LilF]

@GinnyW Thanks for the info you read on the bilious vomiting....she has done it all her life periodically like a couple times a year. Then when she went hyperthyroid (functional thyroid tumor) it seemed to increase. After having the tumor removed, no vomit for 3 months. After 3 months post surgery she went hypothyroid. It is then I noticed the albumin and total protein were declining for almost a year until it got super low to 1.5 (dangerous) in Jan this year. I was told to STOP feeding her raw, even by holistic vets, and to cook the food so it is more digestible. End of Feb. the albumin and total protein were going up again, all great. Am udating the levels next week again. So the diet seems to have helped along with targeted supplements. Last night I gave her much less of the turkey with her thyroid pill and BOOM, she puked the small meal this morning. Interesting you said bile is released with the expectation of food. She doesn't expect food while sleeping but the bile builds up and causes morning pukes. I am VERY frustrated that the holistic vet I have doesn't like really diving into things other than at the dogs appointments. There are no other choices here. I email her and mostly get no response. Just emailed her about my other dog days ago who has spondylosis and I was wanting Adequan right away. No response and not waiting till his next appt. so I got his regular vet to do the protocol and we go friday. I am more than happy to pay for good holistic care. I have been force to seek information through phone consults and this forum. I get bits and pieces and then have to put it all together and "hope" for the best. The holistic vet I had up to now retired. He was the go to person for everything and could be trusted. That is why my dogs are 14 plus!!! I was going to seek a consult from Monica Segal. She says on the site she has done diets for dogs with PLE Protein Losing Enteropathy. I WISH I could feed her organs but she needs a low fat diet. On the homeopathy, I do and don't believe in it and it takes too long to get going and there is a few months wait. My dogs are 14 plus . So, Ginny, are you are a vet nutritionist? I feel that every day there is something new to learn. I have another dog that is ignored with his spondylosis because of Gabby's high maintenance. If I give Gabby's less food I am afraid her levels will get too low and nobody to verify that with that. She also doesn't let me in her mouth so how do I do homeopathy. Wanted to do a food sensitivity test and she won't let me swab her mouth. So how would I do homeopathy? Apologies for the long post....and appreciate your thoughts on this and the hurdles here!

 

[GinnyW]

Thank you for all the information! In case you haven't noticed, this site is run mainly by and for homeopaths and their students, as well as other excellent specialists in holistic medicine. You should be able to get all the help you can use here, homeopathic, dietary, and the special happiness protocols. Homeopathy works by giving the body a way to recognize and fix its problems, while we are supporting its efforts with excellent diet, bodywork, and energy medicine. , All our faculty are highly trained and utilize the information in bloodwork, tests, etc. to guide their treatment choices. So, go back to the home page and get some help.
I am uncredentialed, but an ardent student of health and nutrition. I respect all you have done for her, but I suspect there might be some other choices diet-wise. Have you ever given her digestive enzymes? Probiotics? I am skeptical about avoiding raw or fat, since these are actually the most readily digestible and natural. I'd like to think we can clear up her leaky gut instead of just catering to it.
And nothing about homeopathy requires prying her mouth open There are many strategies to give remedies. And, one more thing: instead of the money and trouble of obtaining Adequan, look into liquid hyaluronic acid, to be given orally, in food if you like. One brand is Trixsyn, from Cogent Solutions. I buy HA in gallons, which might be a bit much for you - from 100X Equine. I gave shots to my first dogs for years, but found the oral preparations work really well, too.
I am hoping others will chime in with advice, suggestions, guidance, info. I'd love to see something change for this little dog.

 

[ChristineL]

@LilF I don't have experience in this area but I ditto very much what @GinnyW said about homeopath and holistic vets here on HA!

Also, Ion Biome (Dietary Supplement for Gut-Brain Health | ION*Biome) crossed my mind... @Dr. Jeff recommended it for Koby, my Maltese. @Dr. Jeff - would you recommend it for LilF's pup?

I will email Katie re ASEA (Dr. Jeff mentioned it on the webinar this past Monday). I have a bottle at home .. bought it when Koby was around but I couldn't find any credible info of its use for pets (dogs) back then so I didn't give Koby any . I will share w/ you once I have the info.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Yes! Both ION*Biome and ASEA (start one before adding the other) can be useful for Hope, Lil's pups and many other pets.

Their responses will depend on their individual susceptibilities (sensitivities).

How to Optimize Every Aspect of Your Pet’s Environment to Promote Balance, Boost Immunity, and Defend Against Dis-ease - Holistic Actions!

www.holisticactions.com

 

[LilF]

Thank you for all the information! In case you haven't noticed, this site is run mainly by and for homeopaths and their students, as well as other excellent specialists in holistic medicine. You should be able to get all the help you can use here, homeopathic, dietary, and the special happiness protocols. Homeopathy works by giving the body a way to recognize and fix its problems, while we are supporting its efforts with excellent diet, bodywork, and energy medicine. , All our faculty are highly trained and utilize the information in bloodwork, tests, etc. to guide their treatment choices. So, go back to the home page and get some help.
I am uncredentialed, but an ardent student of health and nutrition. I respect all you have done for her, but I suspect there might be some other choices diet-wise. Have you ever given her digestive enzymes? Probiotics? I am skeptical about avoiding raw or fat, since these are actually the most readily digestible and natural. I'd like to think we can clear up her leaky gut instead of just catering to it.
And nothing about homeopathy requires prying her mouth open There are many strategies to give remedies. And, one more thing: instead of the money and trouble of obtaining Adequan, look into liquid hyaluronic acid, to be given orally, in food if you like. One brand is Trixsyn, from Cogent Solutions. I buy HA in gallons, which might be a bit much for you - from 100X Equine. I gave shots to my first dogs for years, but found the oral preparations work really well, too.
I am hoping others will chime in with advice, suggestions, guidance, info. I'd love to see something change for this little dog.

Thank you for all the information! In case you haven't noticed, this site is run mainly by and for homeopaths and their students, as well as other excellent specialists in holistic medicine. You should be able to get all the help you can use here, homeopathic, dietary, and the special happiness protocols. Homeopathy works by giving the body a way to recognize and fix its problems, while we are supporting its efforts with excellent diet, bodywork, and energy medicine. , All our faculty are highly trained and utilize the information in bloodwork, tests, etc. to guide their treatment choices. So, go back to the home page and get some help.
I am uncredentialed, but an ardent student of health and nutrition. I respect all you have done for her, but I suspect there might be some other choices diet-wise. Have you ever given her digestive enzymes? Probiotics? I am skeptical about avoiding raw or fat, since these are actually the most readily digestible and natural. I'd like to think we can clear up her leaky gut instead of just catering to it.
And nothing about homeopathy requires prying her mouth open There are many strategies to give remedies. And, one more thing: instead of the money and trouble of obtaining Adequan, look into liquid hyaluronic acid, to be given orally, in food if you like. One brand is Trixsyn, from Cogent Solutions. I buy HA in gallons, which might be a bit much for you - from 100X Equine. I gave shots to my first dogs for years, but found the oral preparations work really well, too.
I am hoping others will chime in with advice, suggestions, guidance, info. I'd love to see something change for this little dog.

@GinnyW Hi Ginny, So, yeah, we use the enzymes and the animal biome probiotic. She does not take 4 like they said to take as she was getting sick on it. Maybe that one is not the best probiotic. I have been using Trixsyn for the dog with spondylosis now for over a month. The real improvement I saw with that dog was using the collagen. I also give the collagen to Gabby for her gut lining. She grew up on a raw diet but still got this GI problem. I used to give her organs and bones and grass fed meats. I have always cooked up (partially raw) some beef or bison to "top" the food and make it taste better. I was open to homeopathy but was trying to find one who had experience using it with PLE.. Was going also to schedule a nutritional consult with Monica Segal. I have known about her for over a decade and she lists that she has formulated diets for dogs with PLE. Gabby's problem has been exhausting with all the special things needed that take so much time--the cooking is such a burden. Feeding a 60lb dog requires a lot of food preparation. I WISH I could just throw some raw meat and organs at her and call it a day. The homeopathy seems like another time consuming endeavor. When am I supposed to "be " with her when I am constantly DOING something to meet her medical issue. I am just really tired and worn down at this point especially with the getting up early to "make a small meal" for the bilious vomiting. I don't know how to get started on the homeopathy. I need someone who knows about her condition of Protein losing enteropathy from the intestine. Her ultrasound noted small intestine is thickened throughout with striations. Whatever all that means!