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What do these symptoms in a senior dog sound like---neurological? kidney toxicity?

LilF

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I am posting about my JJ, now 15. He has spondylosis, moves slowly and slow to process cognitively. The cognitive seems worse in the mornings upon waking. Last evening I brought him home from a sniff at the park---he did not walk per se. When descending the ramp out of the car he seemed to regurgitate a bit, not a big deal but indicated maybe upset stomach? So he comes in the house and pants, very clingy and trying to wrap himself around my legs. He goes to lay down in the hallway on his belly. He stretched his legs out and then rolled over on his left side and I thought he was dying. Not sure if his eyes were closed or what but he seemed "out" for maybe a half minute or less, not sure really. My time estimate was distorted. He had not been uncoordinated or tilting his head prior to or afterwards. He had no shaking as in a seizure. He has kidney issues.....Updating urine and blood today----He was also doing some drooling..... He might have seemed like he had some stomach upset last night but no vomit. I rubbed rescue remedy on his ear twice and gave him Nux Vomica 30c, dissolved one pellet in 3 cc's of water.....He did not want food after the episode of zoning out or whatever it was---fainting? He wanted no thyroid pill last night or this morning either so I syringed it into him this morning. He is just sleeping a lot more than usual. The vet hospital was a 8 hour wait and they said to monitor him for signs of stroke which I did not see over night. I started to drive to the hospital last night but decided to turn around and not go because he would be so stressed. Even today's bloodwork I contemplated because of his stress levels but have to get some sort of data on his kidneys or otherwise. Gabby died 3 weeks ago today. He probably followed her lead. Not sure if he misses her, he did look for her at first. Does this episode sound like anything anyone recognizes? Only thing I can think of is kidney levels high and toxins dumping into the blood. I did NOT give him the Enalapril the vet gave me. I was using Rehmannia the chinese vet gave me but JJ has not wanted to take it for a week or so. I have ordered Epakiten and Life Gold Kidney. But now his appetite is not good and sure they will ask if I want cerenia when I take him in at 4:30. I want to say no and see if his appetite returns some. Or is Mirtazapine better if I have to resort to one. Thanks
 

Dr. Jeff

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I'm sorry to hear about JJ's episode Lil.:confused:

Yes, it sounds like some sort of neuro. episode to me.

This could be triggered by electrolyte abnormalities secondary to his kidneys, liver, or brain.

Let's see what your vet says and the blood tests show.

Regarding the drugs you mentioned, either that you mentioned can work.

More important IMHO is continued sniffing, fresh air, manual therapies (petting, massage, Tui na), Reiki, environmental engagement, etc.
 

LilF

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Thank you so much as I try and muddle through this. Yes, been focusing on the increased attention and petting. Yesterday at the vet they wanted to give him a cerenia shot but I said I would hold off to see if his natural appetite returned and YAY, it did last evening. I am waiting to hear about the bloodwork. He was more sleepy the next day after the episode but more normal now.....I think he is older than 15. They proposed xrays, 5 of them for next week. I did schedule but only to hold the place. I do not like xraying such an old guy as it mucks the DNA and senior people or dogs do not repair that well so I would worry about it causing cancer if he does not have one now. The vet said muffled sounds in heart but she wasn't sure because he was panting. I asked for a Pro BNP test. He does not get much exercise so wonder about his heart. Last time done was 2019 and it was ok. If I took him to the vet hospital for just an ultrasound of heart and abdomen I think he would be more nervous because they do not let owners in like the local vet does. The local vet has no US machine so I have to decide what I am going to do about xrays.....I had xrays as a child and had to have my thryoid removed as a result.

JJ is always super nervous and fiesty with the vet so I rubbed some Rescue Remedy on the inside ear flap and WHOA, different dog, Hardly any panting and no fidgeting or fighting (I use that word loosely to describe him trying to escape the exam table), Not a peep for blood work, The difference was like 95 percent improvement. I am amazed. Just passing that along for others. Thank you


I'm sorry to hear about JJ's episode Lil.:confused:

Yes, it sounds like some sort of neuro. episode to me.

This could be triggered by electrolyte abnormalities secondary to his kidneys, liver, or brain.

Let's see what your vet says and the blood tests show.

Regarding the drugs you mentioned, either that you mentioned can work.

More important IMHO is continued sniffing, fresh air, manual therapies (petting, massage, Tui na), Reiki, environmental engagement, etc.
a
 

Dr. Jeff

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Thanks for sharing Lil! 🙏 ❤️

Good for JJ (even a 15+ year old body can do a good job of rebalancing as he did)!!
 

LilF

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I got JJ's blood tests and they are horrible. I repeat Horrible... The Pro BNP was 10,000 and normal is 0-999. So it appears to me that the heart as I suspected is the problem. The result shows increased stretch and stress on the myocardium. "Clinically significant heart disease is likely at this time." So JJ seems at risk for heart failure. I guess his fainting was syncope. I had another dog who did that. But his other values are horrendous:
I last had his blood done in early November and so I ask what changed... I been going through changes in food and supplements to try and find out why

Reticulocytes 127 (cutoff 110)
Reticulocyte Hemoglobin 23.7 low cutoff 24.5)
Platelets 515 (cutoff 448)
Polychromasia SLIGHT Slide reviewed microscopically, no parasites seen, platelets appear increased on the blood film. The appropriateness of the regenerative response should be evalusated considering the degree of anemia and reticulocytosis.
Monocytes 1.364 high
Eosinophils 0.068 Low

IDEXX SDMA 24
Creatinine 2.4
BUN 72
BUN: Creatine Ratio 30

Phosphorus 5.1

ALT 222
AST 280
ALP244
GGT 14

Creatine Kinase 953

There is a UPCR test but the vet forgot to email to me but it was high too.

Could I have been giving him something toxic, as in a supplement . These values are super super high since 11-2-21. How urgent is this? I called the vet hospital and they said that cardiology is scheduling appointments but I bet they are a month behind. Doesn't this dog need immediate help? There is no cardiologist in emerg, they would have to call one.

Would enalapril help any of this right now? I want to avoid a crisis with his heart.
He eats commercial food and don't think lack of taurine could cause this but I gave him taurine and Ubiquinol tonight. He is not good at wanting supplements now. Since November I added supplements maybe they were toxic to him.

I am very concerned. His respiration on rest was 26. He is not visibly out of breath but pants out of excitement sometimes. I don't hear him coughing. Last week the wait at the hospital was 8 hours to wait in the parking lot in your car. Not allowed in with the pet. JJ is really nervous guy. I hate to have him go through all the anticipated testing but if things are treatable... Can all these out of whack values like liver and kidney and his mental slowness be from a heart problem? And I do not understand why the blood values are off. He is a mess from Nov 2nd blood draw. It seems something caused this but what.
 

Dr. Jeff

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I'm sorry to hear about JJ's abnormal lab values and internal symptoms.:confused:

Could I have been giving him something toxic, as in a supplement .
Unlikely.
These values are super super high since 11-2-21. How urgent is this?

From what you wrote, only the proBNP is super high.
I called the vet hospital and they said that cardiology is scheduling appointments but I bet they are a month behind. Doesn't this dog need immediate help? There is no cardiologist in emerg, they would have to call one.
Maybe. Can you get him to a referral hospital (most big cities now have one or two)?

Has his BEAM and quality of life recently declined?
Would enalapril help any of this right now?
Possibly. When he has an echocardiogram you'll know for sure.
Can all these out of whack values like liver and kidney and his mental slowness be from a heart problem?

Yes. And all of the physical abnormalities are secondary to decreased cellular energy which allows his heart (and all of his organs) to work properly,

Perhaps increase his Therapeutic Sniff Walks, Happiness Quotient, use Love Therapy and strong intention (knowing that his body is able to heal) fresh heart treats, Co Q-10, omegas, carnitine, etc.

There are many other suggestions in the heart resource area.

Good luck with JJ. You can do this!!
 

LilF

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@DrJeff I was going to start the enalapril but worry about it affecting his electrolytes and blood pressure. We did not measure his BP. That was going to be done wednesday. I just talked to the vet and she said what you did about him being stable. I know if his BP or electrolytes get too low from enalapril he will pass out or maybe affect his heart. I am afraid to start it on a saturday when the hospital is the only option for treatment if there is a problem. Here in my area the vet said they were turning away cases not emergencies. The wait was 8 hours last week. I gave him taurine last night and the Ubiquinol. This is an odd elevation of things in 2 months IMO not attributed to old age. He was taking a chinese supplement and I was starting to give him DGP for his mobility. I also was feeding Northwest Naturals Turkey. Going to go and get Answers now just in case.

In one of my ubiquinol supplements one ingredient is D Limonene is that toxic to dogs? I will probably run out of the dog ubiquinol I have so wanted to know if my ubiquinol was an option with the D Limonene in the other ingredients. Thanks
 

Dr. Jeff

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Great question Lil!

Limonene is very safe, but yes, it can be toxic.

For JJ I'd strongly consider using the Xymogen CoQMax Omegas:

 

LilF

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@Dr. Jeff how do I purchase--only through practitioners...

Oh one quick question. They still have JJ's blood for a few days. Are there any other tests I should request. Could there be a possible infection like humans get of the the myocardium to cause such drastic changes since Nov 1st (although I had no Pro BNP test done in Nov, the other kidney and liver values shot up like a rocket. I will read the heart section today to see if I can learn any more about this as well. Thank you!
 

Dr. Jeff

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Great question about whether there is a blood test for a heart infection!

Not really.

Occasionally (but not often) WBCs in the blood may be marked elevated with a "left shift" (meaning that infection is more likely than just a general inflammatory high white count). However, this would have been a red flag in the CBC.

A suddenly worse "auto" immune phenmenon or other metabolic change is much more likely than an infection of the heart.
 

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