Seaweed Calcium

[NancyK]

My two dogs are 17 and 17.5. They have eaten a raw meat, bone and organs diet almost their whole life. They are still in good health. About a year I ago I started using Four Leaf Rover Better Bones (freezed dried bone meal) for calcium vs raw meaty bones as they seemed to digest it better. I recently decided that maybe I should transition them to seaweed calcium because it is supposedly very bioavailable and lower in phosphorus. They don't really have kidney disease but they do have some very old organs so I thought maybe less phosphorus would be better for them.

I was going to transition them slowly from the bone meal, however seaweed calcium has calcium carbonate which acts as an antacid and bone meal requires good stomach acid to digest it. I thought mixing them might cause problems. Anyway, I just switched them cold turkey and the one dog is doing fine but the other one is having loose stools. I may have to take a step back and convert her more slowly, or else it just does not agree with her. The brand I am using is from the Pet Health and Nutrition Center.

Any advice on making the transition? Or could it be my one dog simply does not tolerate it? I also ordered the seaweed calcium from Animal Essentials just to see if that makes a difference, although the Pet Health and Nutrition Center is very reputable.

Thank you,
Nancy

 

[NancyK]

I wanted to give an update on this. I talked to the pet Health and Nutrition Center. They advised me not to use seaweed calcium unless my dogs have kidney disease.

Since they do not have kidney disease, I decided to go back to bone meal for now.

However, I am interested in what others think. I do not like the idea of calcium carbonate reducing stomach acid which can be low in old dogs anyway.

She has made it to almost 18 on bones and has the mobility of a 3 year old so sticking with what has worked is likely the best approach.

Nancy

 

[Dr. Christina]

So wonderful that your dogs are so active and healthy. As you illustrate so well, each of us is unique and reacts differently to everything! And there is no one correct answer.

I have known the Animal Essential company for at least 30 years and have found their products totally satisfactory. I do not know Pet Health and Nutrition center, so cannot comment.

I have had dogs and use the seaweed calcium their entire life. If the source of the seaweed is good (listen to talk by Bill Wolf on seaweed quality), then there is less worry than with bone meal (heavy metals). I think it is fine to use any one of the 3 sources (the other is eggshell calcium ground at home or purchased).

Dr. Christina

 

[NancyK]

So wonderful that your dogs are so active and healthy. As you illustrate so well, each of us is unique and reacts differently to everything! And there is no one correct answer.

I have known the Animal Essential company for at least 30 years and have found their products totally satisfactory. I do not know Pet Health and Nutrition center, so cannot comment.

I have had dogs and use the seaweed calcium their entire life. If the source of the seaweed is good (listen to talk by Bill Wolf on seaweed quality), then there is less worry than with bone meal (heavy metals). I think it is fine to use any one of the 3 sources (the other is eggshell calcium ground at home or purchased).

Dr. Christina

Thanks Dr. Cristina. I may try the seaweed from Animal Essentials. The Pet Health and Nutrition Center does have some certification on their seaweed calcium and have many high quality products. This could be a unique reaction from my dog. The other dog tolerates it but his poop is now black for some reason. Perhaps from the mineral content. The Four Leaf Rover freeze dried bone meal is from New Zealand grass finished cattle and supposedly tested for heavy metals. I don't think it is like the bone meal from the old days. It seems it should be safe. Seaweed can also contain some level of contaminants even if certified. And egg shells if sourced from commercial facilities could have chemicals on them. It seems nothing is perfect these days. If dogs have low stomach acid, my understanding is that the calcium carbonate in seaweed or egg shells may not be the best choice since these are antacids. I don't think my dog has low stomach acid but it could be lower than when she was young. If I do decide to try egg shells I will use the shells from my own pasture raised chickens.

Nancy

 

[Dr. Christina]

what is most important is to worry too much. The levels of stomach acid affect each dog differently - no right level. Your bone meal sounds good.

Healthy dogs should tolerate the change in CA without these symptoms, so do post in each one's journal and do a health evaluation of the Early Warning Signs of Internal Imbalance, BEAM, and maybe an intuitive health check. Be sure you have a great homeopathic or TCVM vet on your team.

Breathe, love, play, laugh - keep up your good work.


Dr. Christina

 

[NancyK]

what is most important is to worry too much. The levels of stomach acid affect each dog differently - no right level. Your bone meal sounds good.

Healthy dogs should tolerate the change in CA without these symptoms, so do post in each one's journal and do a health evaluation of the Early Warning Signs of Internal Imbalance, BEAM, and maybe an intuitive health check. Be sure you have a great homeopathic or TCVM vet on your team.

Breathe, love, play, laugh - keep up your good work.


Dr. Christina

Just FYI...I talked to Animal Essentials. They actually advise a gradual transition from bone meal to seaweed calcium to avoid issues. Here is what they said.

"Great question, and you’re absolutely thinking about this the right way. When transitioning from bone meal to Seaweed Calcium, we do recommend a gradual transition, but not because of the calcium carbonate acting as an antacid. Seaweed calcium is actually very well tolerated and highly bioavailable, meaning it’s easier for the body to absorb and utilize compared to bone meal . While calcium carbonate can have a mild buffering effect, at normal dosing levels this typically does not interfere with digestion in a meaningful way.

A simple transition approach:
- Start with ~75% bone meal / 25% Sea-Cal for a few days
- Then move to 50/50 for a few days
- Then 25% bone meal / 75% Sea-Cal
- Then fully transition to Sea-Cal

This helps your dog adjust smoothly and avoids any sudden shifts in mineral balance. Let us know if you have any other questions!"

Therefore, I will try this gradually transition approach. This is likely a case of too much too soon.

Thanks,
Nancy

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Hey Nancy!

I was going to transition them slowly from the bone meal,

There should be no need.

one dog is doing fine but the other one is having loose stools.

Ah, this a great example of individual expressions of sensitivity (susceptibiliity) to change or to the new supplement.

I may have to take a step back and convert her more slowly, or else it just does not agree with her. The brand I am using is from the Pet Health and Nutrition Center.

Any advice on making the transition? Or could it be my one dog simply does not tolerate it?

Intolerance to seaweed calcium is not something I recall ever seeing. However, mild shifts while you make any dietary transition is common.

Especially in older individuals.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

She has made it to almost 18 on bones and has the mobility of a 3 year old so sticking with what has worked is likely the best approach.

I couldn't agree more!!

Yay for not messing with success!!

I'd love to know why Maria at PHNC said to not use seaweed calcium...

 

[Dr. Jeff]

If I do decide to try egg shells I will use the shells from my own pasture raised chickens.

There's your cleanest, and most vital calcium source.

Especially if you grind the shells very, very fine (think chalk dust) and use the eggshell membrane:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S175646462400121X#:~:text=Due%20to%20its%20multifaceted%20composition,fibroblast%20growth%20factor%20(FGF).

 

[NancyK]

I couldn't agree more!!

Yay for not messing with success!!

I'd love to know why Maria at PHNC said to not use seaweed calcium...

Maria said not to use seaweed calcium unless the dog has kidney issues. For healthy dogs, she recommends bone meal because that more accurately reflects what a dog would naturally eat and contains all nutrients in the appropriate ratios. Seaweed contains calcium carbonate vs hdyroxyapatite and also is very low in phosphorus. Low phosphorus is great for kidney disease but not ideal for say puppies or nursing dogs.

I do think I did not transition slowly enough to the seaweed calcium slowly. My dogs have eaten bone or bone meal for over 17 years!!!! Jumping to seaweed calcium may need somd time. My reasoning in switching them is because I thought lower phosphorus might be better for very old dogs even though they do not have kidney disease. I am still wondering about that.

I may transition slowly to the seaweed and maybe rotate both forms of calcium. Variety is the spice of life!

Nancy

 

[Dr. Christina]

Thanks for sharing what AE said, though I have never seen a problem.
Keep us posted.
Dr. C