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Help get to the bottom of cat with sniffles and runny eye

StacieS

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@Dr. Jeff , @Dr. Christina , @Dr. Sara ,
Hello! I have a little guy, Banjo (domestic short-hair, mix), whom I adopted from an animal rescue when he was approximately 6-8 weeks old. He is now almost 6 (in August).

When he was rescued, he was the only one of his litter that did not require surgery for his eye disease (I don’t know what the disease was called but it required all but him to have their eye removed) but he has lasting tissue attached slightly to his eyeball, which the vet who treated him did not feel warranted surgery at the time, and since then, his current and past vets agreed that it doesn’t seem to bother him greatly. As a result, he always had a leaky eye on that side (his right side), which I always assumed was due to the attached skin.

Fast forward to last year when he came down with a sinus infection. At that time, he was put on antibiotics, azithromiacin (spelling?), I believe. They also gave him one to put directly in his eye but I don’t remember what that was called and I don’t know if it was an antibiotic. To my surprise, his leaky eye cleared up for the first time ever and his sniffles and discharge improved but did not entirely go away. At this point, his vet put him on an antiviral for a time (she was just guessing his diagnosis and assumed that he had one) but it only seemed to make him worse. We took him off of it since his discomfort had cleared considerably and let him coast for a bit.

It was also noted that he had lost nearly 2 pounds since his last visit, which was either at 3 years or maybe 2 (but I’m assuming 3 because he was probably in for his 3 year vaccine).

I moved to another state in October and by January his sneezing and discharge got bad again and I made an appointment with his current vet but they couldn’t fit him in until February since he was a new patient (poor guy). At this time, I was feeling like let’s just stop guessing at what is going on with him and had them run a test for viruses. It turns out he has Calicivirus, which he likely contracted from my former roommate’s cat who also had a sneezing/discharge issue but couldn’t be fully treated for it because he had other health issues (renal failure being the major one) and was too fragile to risk the antibiotic side effects, they determined. So he was put back on antibiotics in February, this time Doxycycline, given saline drops for his nose, and I was told to give him Fortiflora.

His sniffles (and eye) cleared up entirely, his energy went through the roof, and his appetite increased. He was doing great for awhile but by April 6th he was back on the Doxycycline, fortiflora, and they told me to add Lysine to his meals and give him an appetite enhancer. Once again, his sniffles and eye cleared up, his energy raised, and his appetite increased. I admit that I didn’t give him the appetite enhancer at first because I felt like I was already doing a lot “TO” him and I knew that when he felt better he would eat more, which indeed happened within a few days of the antibiotic treatment. Once he was back to his high energy levels, I began with the appetite enhancer and he started to eat more than usual... but then after a few days he didn’t eat for almost two whole days and I felt sketched out about that so I stopped giving it to him. I just feel like, if he’s healthy, he would eat properly so it feels weird to me to meddle with his appetite like that. I am open to being wrong about this manner of thinking and please do correct me if I’m wrong but it just doesn’t feel right to me...

I am here because I want (desperately) to get to the root problem and FIX it so he can go back to being a healthy and energetic cat! Throwing antibiotics at him constantly is giving me anxiety about what that is doing to his microbiome and overall health and ability to heal. So now it is May 29th and the sniffles have been back for a week. Not extreme but becoming more so each day and I am just dreading taking him back for more antibiotics, though the last time I spoke to the vet she basically said that he would likely have to be taking them off and on for the rest of his life (yikes!) but switching to azithromiacin (?) because it’s not as strong as the Doxycycline. There has to be more that can be done... right?

So his current regimen is: I feed him two cans/day of Royal Canin Adult Instinctive (which I add a little water to for extra hydration, though he seems to be pretty decent at drinking on his own) and supplement with dry kibble ad libitum. Please don’t hate me for this but the dry kibble is Evolution brand and the reason I give him this is because I was giving him Wellness Core for the longest time and then someone gave me the Evolution as a sample so I gave it to him IN ADDITION to his wet food and the dry Wellness just to see if he would even give it the time of day and he basically snubbed the wellness for the Evolution, which actually shocked me. For a LONG period of time, I had both dry food available for him to choose from and he consistently snubbed the Wellness and never ate it in favor of the Evolution. So I give him the Evolution to supplement his wet food, which he only eats a negligible amount of (like maybe 1-2 tbsps/day). I would give him 3 cans/day of the wet food if he would eat it but he has always only eaten the two and then wasted the 3rd, so I just add a little extra water to the wet food and let him eat the dry when he is out of wet.

Full disclosure: I am vegan but I am NOT trying to make my cat vegan, however I admit that I have misgivings about the pet food industry because I know it is not regulated and the ingredients are probably not the most ideal, though I do feel that Wellness and Royal Canin are probably some of the better brands out there (again I am open to being corrected if I am wrong). I just want to be fully transparent about what is going on with him because I genuinely want to do what’s best for him. I’ll feed him raw meat if that’s what it takes to get him healthy, though as a vegan I will hate doing it. Does that make sense? Okay so that’s food.

Supplementation, as per his vet’s recommendations is: 1/4 tsp Lysine daily (the supplement I have is Vimergy brand capsules, which are 500 mg each so he gets 500 mg/day. Please tell me if that is too much!) split between two wet food meals. 1 packet of Fortiflora/day, also split between meals. I have my reservations about this supplement (I’ve heard some less than positive things about the ingredient “animal digest”) but I’ll let you all be the judge... I give him saline drops when he sounds congested but otherwise try to just let him live his life as much as possible. I bought an air purifier, which I keep near where he sleeps and hangs out even though our air quality is pretty good. I can’t say that it’s doing much for him. They also recommended the appetite enhancer, which I gave him for a period of time until he stopped eating for almost two days. I still have it but I am hesitant to resume. Open to suggestions...

Other concerns: He is due for his rabies and upper respiratory/distemper vaccines but I held off on them last time because he was feeling so bad and I just wasn’t sure if they would be helpful or hindering to him. I always thought it is best to get a vaccine when you are healthy in case of a reaction, that way you have the best chance of fighting it off. Is that true or am I totally off-base with that? I know there are different types of vaccines so the rules might be different for each... The last time he was seen by the vet they noted that they heard a heart murmur :( —She said it was HOPEFULLY just due to the stress of being at the vet but I will have to keep an eye on him. He doesn’t appear to display any of the symptoms of it being anything more serious than a stress response as of now. Finally, his Dr. and I both noted that he tends to be congested/leaky mainly in his right nasal passage. This is interesting because when he had the leaky eye as a baby it was also mainly the right eye. She thinks it could potentially be a polyp in there somewhere but would have to either put him under anesthesia and x-rays and/or get a specialist to put a tiny camera up there to see... will look into this down the road possibly. The leaky eye tends to clear up with the antibiotics, though.

General info about him: He is generally very energetic (which is why we didn’t realize he was sick at first because he always had a lot of energy despite his sniffles) and loves to play. He will often play by himself when he is feeling good. When he first came to us and for several years after, it was clear that he trusted us but was also very jumpy and a bit skittish. Any sudden movements would cause him to startle. I had to approach him extremely gently, as I said for several years, before he eventually mellowed out and now appears to be more trusting of his surroundings. He still occasionally has his moments. He likes people and is friendly but will hide away for several hours before “introducing himself” when visitors come over. I mention all of this because it reminds me of my cat who passed away just prior to adopting him that was always slightly jumpy (but not skittish) who turned out to have high blood pressure and once he was put on medication for that no longer was jumpy. Not sure if there’s any connection there with Banjo’s possible heart murmur but I thought I’d mention it. Okay I’m really sorry this is so long winded. I just want to make sure I’m covering all the bases. I would really like to get to the bottom of all of this and hopefully you guys might have some insights that his allopathic vet is overlooking.
Thank you so much for hearing me out :)
Sincerely, Stacie

Here are the details I might have missed: Banjo is Neutered. He is domestic shorthair mix, black (I suspect there is some Siamese in the mix) Weight fluctuates between 8.2-8.6 lbs over the past year.
Vaccination history / exposure to toxins, other medication: has had distemper/upper respiratory in the past but not current; Other health concerns: possible heart murmur, loss of weight (almost 2 lbs since highest weight) although current doctor says he’s not “alarmingly” underweight but would like it higher.
 

Dr. Jeff

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Wow Stacie! that's a lot of helpful info. Thanks for making such an amazing first post.

I'm sorry to hear about Banjo's health challenges. :(

You are 100% correct that there is more that can be done to help him. However these things are not (yet) part of the standard veterinary recommendations but you can start them right away.

The good news is that he's a young kitty with lots of vitality and the ability to self heal.

It's time to harness his "vis medicatrix naturae" (healing power of nature):



The first step in doing this is to increase his body's cellular energy in order to optimize his immune function and ability to heal.

Start by reading through the Holistic Fun-damentals course. In it you'll see several strategies for building and preserving his vitality.

This starts with fresh (vital and non-processed) food. Is he a good eater?

In addition, the HA! respiratory resources have lots of other actionable info. You can find them in your member area. If you have any problems @aruna can point you to them directly.

Perhaps start there and read over some of the blog articles about this "new" ((but very old) approach:




Also, I bet cat expert @Dr. Jean has some other suggestions.
 

StacieS

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Thank you so much for such a quick response!! How do I find this Holistic Fun-damentals course? I tried the search bar but nothing came up. Is it on this website?
Thank you so much ???
 

Dr. Jeff

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Hi Stacie-

You're very welcome!

Yes! When you log in at the main site, the course is listed under the resources menu and is on your dashboard with the other resources.

@aruna can point you to it if you can't find it. Or you can reach her at support@holisticactions.com).

I also realized this am that another useful supplement for Banjo is from our friends at the Pet Health and Nutrition Center:


The 10% discount code for HA! is resp10.

I look forward to our 1:30 call today!
 

Dr. Sara

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Dear Stacie,
I absolutely agree with Dr. Jeff that the basis of health is stimulating the body’s own healing energy.

Perhaps I can explain some of the changes you are noting. Banjo has calicivirus, and his body is not responding appropriately to it by eliminating it. Instead, the body is producing extra mucus to try to eliminate debris, and bacteria are partying down in this mucus. That is why the antibiotics help for a short time, as they decrease the bacterial numbers. When you stop the antibiotics the little fellow doesn’t have the ability to keep the numbers down, so the cycle repeats. That is why you need to improve his immune response.

Many cats like kibble in preference to more species appropriate foods. Kibble breaks down quickly into sugar, and cats have a sweet tooth. Kibble is not quite the equivalent of Twinkies, but it causes a similar increase in blood sugar levels. This is particularly bad for cats as they are prone to diabetes. This is another reason why it is so important to feed cats, an obligate carnivore, a meat based diet. I understand how repugnant that can be to vegans; there are cooked prepared diets that are perfectly acceptable, and most of my vegan clients choose one of those.

If your kitty is strictly indoors, he is not going to be encountering the viruses for which he would be vaccinated. Rabies is required by law, but all vaccines are labeled to only be given to healthy cats, so there is a sound basis for delaying Rabies as well.

I strongly suggest working with a homeopathic vet to prescribe in a manner that can stimulate Banjo’s overall healing. You are doing well with the supportive treatment of L-lysine, air purification and nasal drops. Banjo needs a little ‘instruction’ to direct is immune system appropriately!
I hope this helps,
Dr. Sara
 

StacieS

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My goodness, I’m so sorry for my delayed response to your very thoughtful (and helpful!) message, Dr. Sara! I appreciate what you are saying about his diet and I am doing my best to “get over myself” so to speak so that he can heal properly. And your advice re: the vaccines affirm what my gut was telling me about them. I will certainly be waiting until he is healthier before consenting to those treatments for him. And thank you for breaking down what is going on with this virus! I feel like I have a clear understanding now :)

Thank you both so much for your help with little Banjo’s care. Can I also just say that I appreciate so much how compassionate you both are to ME, as a vegan and all of my feelings/philosophies/beliefs around that. At the end of the day, I will do what is needed in the best interest of Banjo because I am responsible for his well-being, and if I wanted never to deal with animal products again I should have adopted a rabbit! Lol. I just love cats so much… they’re the best!

Dr. Jeff, you were right: One month later and he is feeling much better, thanks to your advice!!! :) Here’s where we’re at now:

Banjo is fully transitioned to a raw diet. I am feeding him a combination of Northwest Naturals chicken or turkey and Primal Pronto turkey. I grabbed both to see which he would like better and he appears to like them both but perhaps the NWN just a bit more. I certainly like the NWN more, lol. It smells better (to me. Raw meat, thawing from frozen—yuck!) and I find it easier to mix his supplements with it because I can crumble several pieces and mix it all up when I add the water. So that is going very well!

Speaking of supplements. I have continued with the Lysine (500mg split between meals, daily) and the Fortiflora (1 packet daily) because no one told me to stop it (haha). He has about 15 days worth left of that so we’ll finish it out but I’m wondering what your thoughts are on that product? Banjo’s allopathic vet suggested it but I saw that there were VERY conflicting reviews about it, the main concern being the ingredient “animal digest”, which doesn’t sound great to me but I’m vegan so… it wouldn’t. Anyway, I’m not sure that it’s doing much more than the lysine but maybe it is? Those are the only supplements he is on right now.

Right before I initially reached out to you, I kinda bought a bunch of things I saw recommended here and there and I’m wondering if I should try some (or one) of them out now (in place of the Fortiflora, maybe?) that he is more energetic and not SO so mucus-y? This is what I have:

Hawaii Pharm Imune Kitty (a blend of echinacea purpurea root, gotu kola leaf, elecampane root, cleavers herb, rosehip shells, and milk thistle seed)

Hawaii Pharm Respiratory Relief (Pinellia rhizome, xing ren kerne, Jie geng root, bei mu (zhe) bulb, and mulberry root bark)

Solid Gold “Sea Meal”
I got this one because Anthony William recommended it but then I noticed that the last ingredient is lactose, which I thought cats are lactose intolerant? I mean, it’s the very last ingredient so there’s probably not much in there (not sure why it would even be in there??) but I figured I’d better hold off on it since he wasn’t doing so great and I didn’t want to give him any potential inhibitors.

Also, I’m wondering if he should be continuing with the Lysine? He’s been on it since April and I’ve read that you need to take a break from that one in particular because it starts to not work as well… What do you think?

Okay, so that’s supplements. In general he is doing SO much better! He has way more energy—not quite to the degree he had on the antibiotics but I’LL TAKE IT. Especially since this is natural energy!! I wish he would gain some weight but so far he’s about the same, roughly 8.4 lbs fluxuating an ounce or two. He’s always been a smaller guy and his vet said it’s not “alarmingly” underweight but he was 10 lbs at one point and I’d like to get him back there. He is a good eater, I would say but if I give him more food, he just won’t eat it so I’m not sure what to do about that. Maybe it’s not something I need to focus on too much just yet until we get these sniffles under control? After all, it’s only been 1 month since the new protocols and he has only been fully raw for two weeks!

Every once in awhile he will sound congested in his nose to the degree that I need to give him the saline drops but not too much. He will shoot a VERY large “snot rocket” (as I’ve been calling them to the tune of the Hot Pockets jingle) every couple of days, though. It seems he goes through phases with that. Some days his nose is totally dry and seems to be doing pretty good and then a few days at a time he’ll be very, very wet in the nose and snotty. His eye is always leaky for the most part, though. Every once in awhile he will have dry eyes. The reverse sneezing is much less, too. I think things are moving in the right direction. I guess it’s a waiting/patience game…

Also, Dr. Jeff, I’ve been trying to do the “hunting game” you told me about but he doesn’t get it! ? He will. not. find. the. treats. until I point them out, lol. We‘ll keep working on it. He enjoys playing, anyway ;)

Okay, I think that’s it for the update. I’ll let you know if I think of anything else. Please let me know what you think about those potential supplements—or any other suggestions you have at all!!

Thank you SO MUCH for your help with this! Banjo thanks you, too :)


Sincerely,

Stacie0AEE2429-AAF5-4A8E-AC39-F5BC78C2F233.jpeg
 

Dr. Jeff

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Wow, thanks Stacie for sharing such a fantastic post and adorable picture!

You're 100% correct. 2 weeks on a raw diet is not enough time to fully assess the changes you will see from it.

Regarding his protocol, just keep doing what you're doing!

Especially promoting his happiness.

Yes, keep playing the hunt for treats game. As he gets stronger, and gains weight, he will get better at it.

Love, fun, fresh food (and avoiding "antis") may be all you need to do.

It's best to continue vet visits for monitoring every few week/months until he is 100%.
 

StacieS

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B4D85115-77A7-424E-B939-3986A19BF0DF.jpeg

Hello! Long time since I’ve checked in but there wasn’t much to report after I switched his food to a raw diet and added a few supplements… I’m not sure how much I should be checking in given that healing is a process and takes time and patience.
I’m writing now, a bit perplexed, because he has been moving in the right direction in some respects but then in others, not so much…

What’s going well is that he has gained some weight (he’s up from 8.2 to 8.9 lbs!); his appetite is pretty good but sometimes goes through periods where he just doesn’t want to eat AS much, usually followed by a period of time where he is ravenous; drinking good (approx. 100ml/day, give or take); pooping and peeing good; energy REALLY good. Wants to play everyday and most days 2x/day! Even has gone back to his old ways of playing by himself with his little “sparkle ball” at times ? But his sniffles just persist and it’s hard to know if I should put him back on antibiotics because sometimes it seems like he’s getting better but then he’ll have a bad period of lots of mucus. I will say that he has not had a reverse-sneezing episode in quite awhile and his leaky eye is no longer leaky!

What’s not going so great: He’s had another bad day of big sneezes and lots of mucus yesterday and when I wiped his nose, there was a tiny bit of blood (picture attached). Not a lot but it scared me ? I know that sometimes I have a little blood in my snot (it’s very cold and a little dry here in N. Washington) and sometimes the color is a little yellow/brownish but it’s no big deal and corrects itself on its own, so I’m just not sure how concerning this is for him?

Another thing I’ve noticed is that he’s been a lot more jumpy and easily startled… not sure what that’s about but I thought I’d mention it. He used to be that way as a baby and a young lad and I thought we’ve moved past that but it seems to be starting up again? I could just be catastrophizing because I’m worried about him, too.. hard to say ???‍♀️

What I’m doing for food:

Northwest Naturals raw chicken or turkey (about 1-3-1/2 cup, re-hydrated) 1-2x/day, depending on his appetite. Still supplementing with some dry kibble in between meals (when I hear him crunching I know it’s time to feed him a second raw meal that day).

Treats 1-2x/day for playtime (hunting). I toss them around and let him sniff them out, as suggested by Dr. Jeff.

Supplements:

• 250-500 mg lysine, daily
  • 1/8-1/4 tsp SeaMeal, daily
  • Hawaii Pharm “Immune Kitty” ~5 drops, daily
  • Hawaii Pharm “Respiratory Relief” 50 ml, daily
  • 3 drops Vimergy B12, daily (his energy levels seemed to turn around in a positive way as soon as I started doing this but I don’t know if it’s the b12 or just the other stuff building up over time…)
  • 2 drops Vimergy Zinc, daily
  • Sometimes I give him a few wild blueberries in his raw food, sometimes one dried, unsweetened cranberry (ripped into small pieces, re-hydrated in his food). I alternate between the two, but now daily… maybe about 3-4x/week?
  • I’ve also been giving him a little bit of celery juice sporadically here and there, just a tiny bit, like 1/4 tsp. I see the Medical Medium people are giving it to their cats and dogs with varying degrees of success. I don’t know if I should give him more (amount, regularly) and if that will help him at all but I’m willing to try anything at this point! ??‍♀️?


So, I guess that’s it for now (another novel, lol). I’m gonna make an appointment to see his allopathic vet because he hasn’t seen them in awhile. I’m wondering if I should have them run a blood panel on him to see if he’s got any deficiencies? I just don’t know what else to do for this little guy right now ??



Thank you for reading all of this! ????
 

Dr. Jean Hofve

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Hi Stacie! A few thoughts:

Calicivirus is not affected by antibiotics (which work on bacteria, not viruses). However, there is sometimes a secondary bacterial infection alongside the virus. A *topical* antibiotic ointment might be appropriate if that is the case. A systemic oral antibiotic will disrupt his gut microbiome, which in turn disrupts the immune system. So oral antibiotics are a "double bad whammy."

Calicivirus and herpesvirus often play together; there is likely a herpesvirus component. (Not that it matters that much, calici is by far the more vicious of the two). The dose I use for these upper respiratory viruses is 1000 mg/day for an active flare-up (up to a couple of weeks), 250 mg/day for maintenance.

It would be best to ditch the dry food completely. For treats, freeze-dried meat, liver, or heart are best--lots of protein without the poor-quality ingredients, and especially without carbs. They are a little bit dehydrating but as occasional little treats they're way better than kibble. For the same reason I would temporarily suspend giving him any fruits or vegetables; you can re-introduce them when this flare-up calms down.

Dry food is also dehydrating, but we want to thin the mucus and make it easier to discharge by increasing moisture in the body.

Just to let you know how damaging even a tiny bit of dry food can be, I had a diabetic kitty patient whose mom gave him 8 pieces of kibble with each insulin injection, just to distract him from the shot. His glucose was completely unregulated. When she stopped the kibble completely, his blood sugar immediately stabilized. It was a good lesson for both of us!

Standard bloodwork don't measure nutrient deficiencies. Unless the deficiency is severe, the body keeps blood levels of nutrients like calcium and potassium within a narrow range. Then again, it may be a good idea to have bloodwork done to serve as a baseline for the future.

Since mucus is one way the body gets rid of toxins, and since his BEAM is overall good, I wouldn't worry too much about sneezy/snotty episodes unless he gets really uncomfortable with it. We sure don't want to suppress it with drugs. I'm sure the other docs on the list will have other ideas for supporting him through this. Homeopathy in particular, and maybe flower essences for the increased startle reflex, would be great.
 

StacieS

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3F5F5B9C-8893-4239-9BD1-5B207D1D9771.jpgHi, Dr. Jean! Thank you for your prompt reply!

I had him tested for viruses awhile back and it came back saying he only had calicivirus. I don’t know if that could change but he hasn’t been interacting with any other cats so I’m guessing no?

Okay, so no antibiotics? I’m relieved! Just seeing that color change made me worry that there might be something worse going on with him… but like I said, otherwise he is doing really great and improving in so many ways!

I will stop with the dry kibble, as you have suggested, and feed him only raw from now on. I feel like he will be mad at me, though! ?? That is crazy what happens with the diabetic cat and that tiny amount of kibble! ?

I will also stop with the berries for now… I forgot to mention that I do give him freeze-dried minnows and organ meats as treats, as well!

As for homeopathic remedies, should I try all of the ones listed on the website’s respiratory section (picture)? Or just one or two? Are there any specific ones you suggest? Also, what do you mean by “flower essences” for his startle relflex?

Thank you so much for your input! ?? I’m interested to hear what the other doctors have to say, as well ?
 

Dr. Christina

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Great suggestions, Dr. Jean.
The freeze-dried minnows and organ meats are fine. Try some fresh (therefore more moisture) heart meat chunks, or whole chicken hearts (free range, of course) and more fishy treats (canned or fresh).

Flower essences for startle is always good, and some companies have essences for eye health as well, or immune building.

I would NOT just try homeopathic medicines on your own right now as there are other possible avenues you will try first (stopping, kibble, etc). It sounds like the improved diet palliated him - helping him be less noise sensitive and even decreasing the discharge and now he needs the next level of energetic treatment.

If you do want to try homeopathy, yet not work with a veterinarian trained in this, you need to read the case taking sections on the site (put case taking in the search box). You will want to quantify the discharge, note more about the startling, list any foods (real food), when is the discharge worse - in bed, after waking and moving, early AM, after eating, before eating, etc.
Does he prefer cold or hot foods, water? Discharge better for heat or cold, or open air? Lots of questions to help select the best medicine.

Dr.Christina
 

Dr. Jeff

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Sounds great overall Stacie (yes, even the mucus)!

Ok, maybe not so much this:
Another thing I’ve noticed is that he’s been a lot more jumpy and easily startled… not sure what that’s about but I thought I’d mention it. He used to be that way as a baby and a young lad and I thought we’ve moved past that but it seems to be starting up again?

However, the return of this emotional symptom may just be a clue that his body is "doing its job (healing). Yes, I agree that working with a vet homeopath is your next step. Where do you live?

Here's a few wonderful people you could work with:



 

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