Thuja side effect

[LilF]

Is it possible that increased anxiety and hyperactivity can be an effect of thuja? I gave Blossom a total of 2 doses over 2 days. Today I took her in the car and her anxiety and hyperactivity were increased greatly. Back to square one almost. Car time was greatly reduced and I drove her home.... We were out no more than 10 minutes. We were making progress and now I don't even know if I can get her to the vet wednesday for her xray, to investigate her polycytemia. She is peppier in her walking. The only thing in diet I changed was adding fish oil, curcumin and B vitamins to help hopefully thin her thick blood. I have given my dogs thuja in the past and no problem. I do not know if this heightened anxiety and her peeing last night in the house are related to the thuja. I also noticed she is reactive at times looking behind her as if she thinks something is there. Oh please tell me this is not THAT powerful to create this change. :-(

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Is it possible that increased anxiety and hyperactivity can be an effect of thuja?

Great question Lil!

The answer is no (and yes).

There are no physical molecules in the Thuja 30c (I think that's what you used) so this can not be a Thuja side-effect.

However, even a single dose of a homeopathic medicine is enough to trigger big changes in energy balance and shift symptoms.

The underlying cause of the symptoms is from changes in her body that the Thuja may have have started.

This can be a super good sign! In fact, many homeopaths want to see this kind of change within a few days after two doses of remedy. Improvement often follows aggravations.

When (and how) did you dose?

 

[LilF]

I believe I gave her the first dose on friday. I gave the second time on saturday but not sure how much I got into her mouth. The bottle is just a liquid of the stuff. I thought her initial improvement in walking speed and no cheek puffing was success in thinning the blood with some fish oil, curcumin and the like (giving her more fluids in the form of broth and goat milk) Today again, good walking, no cheek puffing and no plopping down on the floor soon as she got into the house. Like I said her car anxiety was over the top and I am worried I won't be able to get her to the new vet for a digital xray and second opinion. To top it off, I also got a flat tire today before I took her for a ride and had to rush to find someone to fix it before closing. She is super anxious and wants to go in the car but when it moves----not so much. I gave Dr. Judy FULL details on her temperament including how she wants petting and when people stop she barks at them and scares people. Thank you all for so much help with her.... I am totally grateful .

 

[Dr. Jeff]

YW Lil!

her car anxiety was over the top and I am worried I won't be able to get her to the new vet for a digital xray and second opinion

Today and tomorrow are the days where, if you're going to see an aggravation from a remedy, you'll see the maximum worsening (within 3 days of the second dose).

I bet she is better by week's end and some of her health challenges will start "spontaneously" disappearing.

Fortunately you may have an appointment with Dr. Judy who can then help assess the situation and look for other homeopathic medicines that can be helpful.

 

[LilF]

We are going to try Aconitum with Blossom when she goes in the car....I did get her to the new vet by observing that she does better in the car when I take her for a spirited walk about 5 minutes after we start riding in the car. Before the walk she is very anxious, hyper, whiney. After the walk at the park on the way to the vet she seemed to sit more in the front seat, looking out the front window and smiling! Did not use any more thuja after the two doses. She also needs some training. I am thinking that she may have been tethered because she enjoys when people come up to her to pet her, wagging her tail and when they walk away she barks etc... at them---Jekyl and Hyde...

 

[Dr. Christina]

Training is always good. Pay attention to ALL symptoms after giving any treatment, especially homeopathic, since Blossom seems to be sensitive. Rather than thinking "Aconite for car fear", think what remedy covers ALL her symptoms. Again, working with a professional homeopath may be the answer and then you need to not give any other homeopathic medicines on your own.
Dr. Christina

 

[LilF]

@Dr. Christina, Thanks for weighing in!! I actually had the same thought as you about aconite for car anxiety. I did start working with Dr. Judy and talked for 2 hours to her thursday. She, like the second opinion vet I had an appointment with here locally on Blossom, both agree she is too fat. Neither vet was convinced she has polycythemia so I am trusting those two opinions and working on her "fatness" However the little I do know about homeopathy made me pause about the one remedy for anxiety only and nothing for her "thirstless" symptom except to flavor her water or for her bloodwork (which is thought to be from dehydration and her fatness) The local second opinion vet said that if she were hungrier she would drink more. So I am actually doing both suggestions. Neither vet suggested an xray like the first vet did. I even took her to the second vet because his xray machine was newer. Dr. Judy actually explained how being fat makes them drier and more dehydrated.
Blossom has anxiety around other people, the seeking petting and when they stop she barks and may nip and jump up. I think she was tethered---i.e. people may come up to pet her and then walk away--she barks to say "hey untie me or let me out" Yesterday I had someone here installing my oven. I put her in the front of the house that can be closed off--she barks so wildly even though I gave her snuffle mat and she had her babies (stuffies) with her. I called a vet trainer several weeks ago and she never called me back. This person was suggested by my vet's office.

Dr. Judy also mentioned putting the snuffle mat in the car--remember I thought of that months ago and never did it!! So I guess I will try that now. It also seems to be a security item for her as she always lays on it.

My only problem is if I am to cut her food--like yesterday when the installer was here, I had to fill her snuffle mat. If I train her, I need to treat her--again more food. 2 cups of food adds up quickly when she has so many problems and has to be positively reinforced with fool This is a reason she got so fat to begin with. So it is a contradiction to help her lose wt and have to feed her to reshape her behaviour.

I am doing my best though. So yes, back to the response Dr. Christina, I did have the same reaction to the one remedy for the anxiety only. I love your take (which validated my first take), and thoughts and thank you!!

Last thing here.... I made an appt with an animal intuitive for friday for Blossom as to why she might have her reactions, and JJ (who I am still grieving over)

 

[GinnyW]

I think perhaps she does not need a food reward on each occasion. Praise and love are often enough positive reaction for each occurrence. Food in the snuffle mat, etc., is a distraction, not a teaching moment. Tell her, "Blossom, I need you to be quiet.." and praise the heck out of her for even a moment's pause. You can slowly escalate this by saying, "Blossom, I need you to be quiet for 1-2-3-4-5 seconds....and I will give you ONE piece of whatever" and then give a TINY treat. If she is noisy, say "Blossom, I asked for QUIET...now there will be no treat..." and try again. Dogs work well with rewards; if you are not being consistent, they will not focus on the lesson, and just get frantic about the food distraction. Don't waste an opportunity to TEACH. The dog will value the learning as well as the reward.

 

[LilF]

I have had some success with her when a serviceman came yesterday. Another one comes tomorrow and next tuesday. She barked less but she got out of the area I put her in closed off by pocket doors so I reinforced the area, told the service person to wait to come in till I see if she has gotten out---she did. I talked to her firmly and told her she needs to be quiet now. With the leaping at cars and lunging, I stop and pet her when I see a car coming and tell her good girl. She sees the car drive off and seems good. This worked 100 percent for 2 days. NO FOOD given. She is now walking good, no cheek puffing, no plopping upon getting into the house. After the two thuja doses I saw this improvement only to be better with the food restriction and forcing fluids more and giving blood thinning supplements. I am happy with her progress. The energy lady I worked with who did Tong Ren told me she was getting "confusion" from Blossom. The Chinese medicine doctor I took JJ to also got "confusion" from JJ. I know I confuse my dogs with inconsistency. Blossom likes petting when coming in first thing in the morning. When I pull up a chair it is full body wiggle and wagging. Other day I noticed the heat was broken and I did not pet her because I wanted to make the call to get it fixed. I am aware of not being consistent in my responses. I am consistent with her schedule and routine though.

 

[LilF]

I know you are all going to yell at me ) So the last few days Blossom has been back to the tired, puffing, plopping on the floor upon coming in "self" This occurred after I gave her one dose of the aconite and had a terrible ride with her. So I thought I would give her another dose of the thuja (have not given aconite since that terrible ride in the car). After I gave her the two doses of the thuja around Apr 23 , her physical symptoms abated for about 10 days (NO cheek puffing, NO tiredness, NO plopping and had spirited walking) till I gave the aconite. So I know I am supposed to wait to talk to Dr. Judy but that is days away. I saw improvement in the Energy after the thuja even though she peed in the house and it seemed she was more excitable in the car but not as bad as with the aconite. Maybe this really is vaccinosis. I am not opposed to trying the thuja again and see what happens. Ok, now you can yell at me

 

[GinnyW]

OK Stop messing with the remedies. They work SLOWLY, and in ways you won't necessarily see right away. Giving them in close succession will only confuse the response and slow the healing.
When you are working with a homeopath, you are employing their years of expertise - not just buying a quick fix. Trust Dr. Judy - your sense of how the case is progressing may not develop for weeks or even months. Her case is NOT an acute situation; she doesn't need, and cannot respond well, to a remedy given for an acute. The remedy will only confuse and slow the essential cure.

"Confusion" is exactly what you are promoting. So stop it already. No point in getting real help if you're going to fail to trust it.

Well, you SAID....

 

[LilF]

OK Stop messing with the remedies. They work SLOWLY, and in ways you won't necessarily see right away. Giving them in close succession will only confuse the response and slow the healing.
When you are working with a homeopath, you are employing their years of expertise - not just buying a quick fix. Trust Dr. Judy - your sense of how the case is progressing may not develop for weeks or even months. Her case is NOT an acute situation; she doesn't need, and cannot respond well, to a remedy given for an acute. The remedy will only confuse and slow the essential cure.

"Confusion" is exactly what you are promoting. So stop it already. No point in getting real help if you're going to fail to trust it.

Well, you SAID....

Well it is about 8 months since I noticed this. I saw 10 days of improvement with the thuja. I did not realize it probably WAS the thuja till I saw a relapse. So today I gave her a dose and this evening no puffing. So sorry, but I am going with my gut. I have no idea if aconite treats her breathing but I am going on what I see. I read online by a veterinarian whose name I have seen mentioned here also a homeopath said that when dramatic results are seen then it probably IS vaccinosis. Why would a dog who is 4 be so sick with a suspected disease of polycythemia typically seen in old dogs that is rare anyway?. That diagnosis is also not agreed on by all the vets I have consulted. Only time will tell with the diagnosis and I am following my gut which is what I have learned to do since June of 2022. I may be wrong but I am watching and pivoting and pausing if need be. I already emailed Dr. Judy and told her the whole saga so I will see what she says. My gut told me MONTHS ago, to use thuja. I cannot let her struggle and hope it is a cure in the making. She has struggled long enough now. My gut says vaccinosis, hands down.

 

[LilF]

So the past 2 days I gave Blossom the thuja and did not see the improvement in her slow walking, cheek puffing or her plopping on the floor upon entering the house. I gave it to her in skim milk but the first time I gave it to her when I did see massive improvement in BEAM (walking etc... per above) I gave it directly into her mouth. Sell she doesn't let me do that so I resorted to the milk delivery system. Anyway, there did seem to be some suspicion with this. Like she would suddenly look up like she heard something or when the leash was on her back, she would look back like she thought someone was there. Anyway, so I am not giving it tonight. I should have gone with a homeopath (HELLO DR JEFF!!)who is available and not someone who doesn't work every day and does not check emails frequently like I believe homeopathic monitoring requires. But I wanted to get going on it sooner rather than later. UGH.