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Dog #1 Cougar, 12 yr old, white/tan intact Sheppard approximately 85 lbs, raw fed diet with 3 mm anal tumor above anus and arthritis.

LauraR

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Cougar's BEAM: Very happy a morning dog with higher energy levels will walk in am then energy fades as day goes on, fair to good diet, always been picky eater, especially in summertime, happy and peaceful, loves napping outside in grass after 4 pm dinner. Cougar has a brother, Dog#2 Niko, Akita, 130 lbs --get along well, both dogs are intact. Cougar had injury last year, began with ACL tear end of May or early June....dx-in July by vet and surgeon confirmed Sept 1, operated Oct 29th. I was told at pick up that his Xrays showed a herniated disc and severe arthritis. Recovered very well, walked all winter up to 3-4 miles a day sometimes, rolled in snow on back, happy, running and playful. February--left eye began to have discharge and trouble aligning correctly, took to vet and got adjustment, still walked fine. End of April had diarrhea, for a day & night, fowl smell to it, gave him Sovereign Silver the next day and stopped after 1 dose. Wiped his bottom and watched what I thought was a hemorrhoid grow into a tumor end of June was 2 mm, had trouble walking, today more difficult to walk, up to 1 mile a day if he is able otherwise we go lighter than that, past 2 days very low on walking and sleeping a lot. Vaccines history: Rabies per Ct law every 3 yrs, DHPP/Lepto, Lyme Vaccine twice. Currently no medications. Supplements daily: tinctures: Turmeric, horsetail, Licorice --given 3 times a day, Glucosamine/1500mg, Chondroitin/1200mg, MSN250mg with dinner, along with organic egg yolks (3-4 D/wk), conventional raw beef with organ meat mixed in, 1/4 tsp alfalfa powder, 1/8 tsp spirulina (3D/wk) and Safe Sea--Green Lipped Mussel oil followed and flax oil. Will also eat raw turkey or organic chicken necks, cooked chicken sometimes mixed in food. Capsules daily: four leaf rover: green eggs, immunity mushroom blend--put into capsules and given 3 XD, SOD- marine phytoplankton 1/16 tsp 3 XDay, Quercetin 500mg, 3 XD, 500 mg turkey tail 2XD, Cell Forte 2 XD and lastly TCM:Chai Hu Jia Long Gu Mu Li Tang--just beginning 1/8 tsp 2Xd for now, supposed to build up slowly to 1 1/4 tsp day. Will give CBD at night for pain, when he is pacing a lot and can not lay down comfortably. Attached Xrays from surgery. Perhaps I am doing too many supplements gradually introducing things each week, however this week I introduced 3 things--the turkey tail, TCM powder and Cell Forte all on same day, maybe this was a mistake? He seemed to be ok and showed improvements with the Geen Egg and Safe sea oil--in terms of getting up and down much less difficulty, until we traveled to VT last week, since then his energy is really low and napping a lot.
 

Dr. Jeff

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Hi Laura, and welcome to HA! Thanks for making your first post.

Has Cougar's BEAM been changing since you returned from VT? Did it change when you started the 3 new supplements?

Has he had any licking his butt, scooting or otherwise showing problems from his 3mm perianal tumor?

Do you have an Assisi Loop?



Has your local vet seen him recently, and has he had any senior blood and urine tests?
 

LauraR

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Good Day Dr Jeff,
It did change when we returned back from VT--he slept through his morning walk time and we walked at 5 pm that evening---he seemed fine but at dinner his back end collapsed during dinner, on top of his dinner. He ate smaller than normal and I gave him more CBD that evening than normal....which I now recall. He was tired all weekend and walked about 1/4 of his usual walk, slept more during the days. I began those 2 new items: (the TCM and the Cell Forte) a bit later and probably should have waited a few more days....His BEAM pre-tumor was alert and pacing in the am, bounced outside to pee, then paced around until he got a walk....very high energy and anxious--which would spill over to his brother the Akita and so I would walk them until I could see they were tired. Post Tumor-BEAM--hard to say how much is not influenced by the heat/humidity--he walked slower this am but was back to his mile walk which we took our time on--usually we do this in 30 minutes however today it was a full hour with plenty of stops. He does struggle with walking, keeping weight on his ACL leg at times, especially late in the day...today I stopped the 2 new medicines....figured I would restart in a day or 2 after I can see what he is like and its less humid.
 

LauraR

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Sorry I did not answer your questions--he does not lick his butt, as he can not get all the way back to it, licks on sides of tail though and his penis.
Not sure on what the Assisi Loop is.
No blood work or urinalysis done
 

LauraR

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Is there any blood work that a conventional vet can do to determine if a perianal tumor is cancerous or not? Rather than a biopsy, or is a biopsy the only way
 

LauraR

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Do any of the vets have any feedback on cryotherapy--freezing the tumor instead of surgically removing it? I listened to the forum on spaying/neutering and there was a mention about older dogs getting perianal tumors removed and putting a shunt in rather than removing the testicles--how common is that?
 

Dr. Jeff

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Is there any blood work that a conventional vet can do to determine if a perianal tumor is cancerous or not? Rather than a biopsy, or is a biopsy the only way
Only biopsy is definitive. A needle aspirate can be suggestive depending on the quality of the aspirate.
Do any of the vets have any feedback on cryotherapy--freezing the tumor instead of surgically removing it?

If your goal is to debulk the tumor, then cryo can be great.
I listened to the forum on spaying/neutering and there was a mention about older dogs getting perianal tumors removed and putting a shunt in rather than removing the testicles--how common is that?

The surgical operation you're thinking may be a vasectomy (not a shunt). Dr. Sara talks about this procedure more in her great neutering course.
 

LauraR

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ok great to know!
Is it a good idea to make a salve with plantain and olive oil and apply topically to see if I can reduce the bleeding, (as he is white and his fur on his back end is pink)? I dont want mess with the natural processes of what is happening, however, it is messy and he does not like diapers.
Is it safe to clean the tumor with hydrogen peroxide?
 

LauraR

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Actually I think I will go with coconut oil instead of the olive oil if that is ok? I read that Plantain has drawing properties and so this may be good for the tumor?
 

LauraR

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Lastly, can a surgeon dx a slipped disc via Xray or is it only by MRI that you can detect this?
 

Dr. Jeff

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1. Yes! Either coconut or olive oil is great to use.

2. Great question Laura. The definitive diagnosis of a disc prolapse requires surgery and seeing it directly. MRI is next most definitive. Then a test using injected contrast solution around the spine, called a myelogram, then an x-ray, then history and physical exam (which are also most sensitive, least specific).
 

LauraR

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1. Great thank you very much for this info. Is it a good idea to use hydrogen peroxide to clean the tumor or would this impede healing process? He is shaved down but dry blood still accumulates in his fur surrounding this areas, both sides.
2. Would a peppermint tincture that is a spirit--so it includes both alcohol extraction and EO-be a good safe herb to try and cool his gut? The TCM vet suggested a cooling herb, but nothing specific...and peppermint was mentioned on last forum. I was thinking of introducing a few drops orally and in his water bowls?
 

Dr. Jeff

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1. You're welcome Laura. Peroxide is good to use to remove the dried blood crusts around the bleeding area but yes, can slow healing if rubbed on the tumor too vigorously.

Green tea and stem gel are fabulous alternatives:


2. You can try a few drops and see if he;ll drink it and if it helps.

What symptoms are you trying to cool?
 

LauraR

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The TCM medicine vet said that his tougue and energy were "hot"--so I assumed his gut was source of "hot" and know peppermint is a cooling herb. Other than the formula she mixed up and I purchased, nothing else was mentioned--
So after reading and listening to forums my goal is: to get Cougar a vasectomy--then address the tumor. Does this make sense? My ultimate goal is to have his tumor heal. So it seems to address the matter that is causing the tumor--would be testosterone...if I address the tumor first, it sounds like it can just return....?
 

Dr. Jeff

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Hi Lauren, now I got it! Thanks for the clarifiction.

The vasectomy is a great option for sterilizing male dogs.

However, it won't decrease testosterone levels and address. The perianal tumor.

You'll unfortunately need to have Cougar's testicles removed in order to do that. That's what a regular castration (but not a vasectomy) will do.
 

LauraR

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Great thank you for explaining this....so this is the only solution to shrink or rid him of the perianal tumor? Is there anything else I can do to get him back in balance and heal?? As he is so old I would hate to do surgery now on him....
Also is it safe to use Licorice tincture long term for arthritis for a dog?? Or do I need to take breaks with this herb/tincture?
 

Dr. Jeff

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You're welcome Laura. No it's not the only solution, but is the fastest.

Homeopathy, good TCVM, and other methods the build vitality and balance can do that.

Yes, it can be used longterm but supplements are often best used on an intermittent basis. However, any question about this really depends on the context of the individual. There's not one right way for every situation.
 

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