Switching proteins

[ChristineL]

Hi All (@GinnyW) - How often do you switch protein for your pup's diet? My dog Hope is on Answers and I am rotating between turkey, duck and beef (rarely).

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Christine, I'll be curious to hear what Ginny says as well, but in general, a well-balanced pup can benefit from a wide variety of proteins, meat sources, and even veggie, fruits, etc.

Varied could be each meal, dail, weekly, or whatever your schedule will allow.

I'd also love to hear what @Dr. Sue and @Dr. Sara have to say about protein variety.

 

[Dr. Sue]

Hi Christine,
This is a great question! It's awesome that you're thinking about variety. There is no rule and there are lots of ways to do variety. For example: You can go through one carton or box of Answers Turkey, then choose a different protein for the next carton or box. You can serve one protein for one meal and another the next. You can also choose the protein according to the season - Fall and Winter would be neutral to warm proteins (beef, chicken, venison, lamb) and Spring/Summer cooler proteins (turkey, duck, fish, pork). That is if you have those seasons where you live! You can also choose proteins according to yuor to your dog's temperature preference or body language. Basically, if it's hot outside and your dog is panting with a red tongue and seeking cool, feed cooling proteins. If it's cold outside, or if your dog has a pale tongue, cool to the touch and seeking warmth, then feed warming proteins. You do need to remember however that raw diet is cooling by nature, so with pets that are really seeking warmth you may add some cooked/warm foods as toppers or at least let the Answers come to room temp prior to serving.

I love Answers - it's the raw food that I recommend the most. But, to really get variety you can add fresh food toppers at each meal and you can rotate brands for greater variety. Other brands that I like are Bones and Company, Steves Real Food and Primal. You'll find other proteins in these brands too!

Dr. Sue

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Thanks so much for your super speedy reply Dr. Sue! Both Christine and I really appreciate it.

 

[GinnyW]

I love variety No schedule here, just feed what's not been fed. Sometimes, twice in a row. My basic foundation is a bit of ground or mix, just to get some supplements in. This is usually a Greentripe Xkaliber or TOMB, and a bit of ground beef or "stuffed" chunks of meat. Fish oil, liquid HA, collagen, BioBrilliant, Connectin, astazanthin, krill oil and maybe a raw egg or some soup spooned on it. Then a big chunk of bony stuff; could be chicken, pork ribs ends, beef rib ends, turkey back, alpaca bones....He's not a fish eater. I use kibbly things only for flavor and variety, a few NWN freeze-dried nuggets, some Ziwis, a few Acana kibbles - all these get used for treats and games, too. And occasionally, only a BIG bony piece that makes a meal in itself. I do not prefer ground mixes or patties, although I can see value in providing something that seems "complete" for some. I know of dogs that have lived healthy lives on only commercial chicken; it's still way better than kibble. But the healthiest dogs I think I've known ate almost nothing but deer meat, and when they ran out and had to eat chicken for a while one could really see a difference.

I believe variety is always better. Of course, my guiding principles also include keeping weight down, fasting or "almost" fasting, and giving meals that take time and energy to eat - and making every day different in some way: timing, content, texture....

 

[Dr. Sue]

Love it! A word of caution though to those reading - when you say "I know of dogs that have lived healthy lives on only commercial chicken; it's still way better than kibble. But the healthiest dogs I think I've known ate almost nothing but deer meat, and when they ran out and had to eat chicken for a while one could really see a difference" - pretty severe imbalance can happen if dogs eat only muscle meat and not whole prey. I'm assuming that you mean these dogs are eating bone too just like your dogs- more than muscle or organ meat. I've seen puppies and kittens in my practice that can't stand due to nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism - their bones are like rubber from only eating chicken meat. They need the calcium from the bone and all of the other minerals and vitamins in balance.

Nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism (NSH) is a metabolic disorder in which bone production is normal but osteopenia results from excessive bone resorption. It is caused by diets providing excess phosphate, insufficient calcium, or both. Affected animals have usually been fed mainly meat, organ tissue, or both.

 

[GinnyW]

Yes, a very important point! The commercial chicken was backs only, by a friend who just couldn't extend herself further at the time. The deer were whole, hunted in Montana and put out for the dogs - GSDs. She only bought chickens when they ran out of deer. Yes, the idea behind RMB - raw, meaty bones - is to feed bony pieces swathed in meat: slabs of ribs, quarters of chicken, whole game hens, meaty neck bones, pork shoulder roasts, etc.
My own menu also includes whole venison liver and heart, bison liver, heart, and kidneys, lamb liver and kidneys. Our only "dogs in elk" adventure was when I hit a deer with my truck and brought it home. We sort of all butchered it together
Back in the day, packaged foods were nonexistent, and we all kept an eye out for opportunities - I have friends in the Midwest who still run an informal group who are notified by the sheriff when a deer has been roadkilled. There was horsemeat occasionally, and one very stinky bull who had gotten loose when they were trying to transport him and stuck under a pickup truck, dying there. Our intrepid raw feeders dug out the carcass after a couple of days of 100 degree weather and parted it out. He is legendary....
Anyway, we wouldn't have dreamed of not feeding whole. And I think a lot of these incidents of feeding insufficiently varied diets are influenced by commercial "complete" diets with terrible ingredients. Those paying attention will note I did not mention vegetable matter anywhere...

 

[ChristineL]

Thank you all for your response! Thanks, @Dr. Jeff always!

@Dr. Sue In addition to Answers, I am also giving Hope some raw blends from a local vender (www.soulyraw.com), green juju and bone broth. I will look into those brands you recommended. Thank you for the info on cool/hot/neutral protein and how to feed based on the seasons and Hope's condition. I truly appreciate it.

@GinnyW - Thank you too! Guess what? I'm now feeding Hope in an 8-hour window every day. It's working out pretty well.

 

[Dr. Sue]

Yes, a very important point! The commercial chicken was backs only, by a friend who just couldn't extend herself further at the time. The deer were whole, hunted in Montana and put out for the dogs - GSDs. She only bought chickens when they ran out of deer. Yes, the idea behind RMB - raw, meaty bones - is to feed bony pieces swathed in meat: slabs of ribs, quarters of chicken, whole game hens, meaty neck bones, pork shoulder roasts, etc.
My own menu also includes whole venison liver and heart, bison liver, heart, and kidneys, lamb liver and kidneys. Our only "dogs in elk" adventure was when I hit a deer with my truck and brought it home. We sort of all butchered it together
Back in the day, packaged foods were nonexistent, and we all kept an eye out for opportunities - I have friends in the Midwest who still run an informal group who are notified by the sheriff when a deer has been roadkilled. There was horsemeat occasionally, and one very stinky bull who had gotten loose when they were trying to transport him and stuck under a pickup truck, dying there. Our intrepid raw feeders dug out the carcass after a couple of days of 100 degree weather and parted it out. He is legendary....
Anyway, we wouldn't have dreamed of not feeding whole. And I think a lot of these incidents of feeding insufficiently varied diets are influenced by commercial "complete" diets with terrible ingredients. Those paying attention will note I did not mention vegetable matter anywhere...

Just an observation - there is veg in a whole prey diet. Herbivores have a rich assortment of fermented grasses in their digestive tract which is a great source of phytonutrients. Animals in the wild will seek out herbs and vegetation for medicinal purposes, for fiber and because their bodies do need it. I recently had a small dog who has dysbiosis and eats only Answers Straight (no veg) and goat's milk have an episode of diarrhea and seek out and eat the bottom 3 inches of a pineapple. He vomited because of the prickly pineapple, but his stool became normal. Pineapple contains bromelain - a potent digestive enzyme. He knew what he needed!

 

[Dr. Sue]

Just an observation - there is veg in a whole prey diet. Herbivores have a rich assortment of fermented grasses in their digestive tract which is a great source of phytonutrients. Animals in the wild will seek out herbs and vegetation for medicinal purposes, for fiber and because their bodies do need it. I recently had a small dog who has dysbiosis and eats only Answers Straight (no veg) and goat's milk have an episode of diarrhea and seek out and eat the bottom 3 inches of a pineapple. He vomited because of the prickly pineapple, but his stool became normal. Pineapple contains bromelain - a potent digestive enzyme. He knew what he needed!

Also - this little dog needs more fiber to help support healthy microbes in his gut and reduce bad bacteria as shown on his Animal Biome fecal microbe test. He's getting dark leafy greens added to his Answers as well.