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Dog w/ pancreatitis, and now wondering about diabetes

Sierra

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Oct 11, 2021
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7
  1. Your pet's name - Jasper
  2. Approximate age - 4 1/2
  3. Sex - Male
  4. Neutering status - Neutered
  5. Breed - Half king charles cavalier spaniel, half bichon frise/poodle mix
  6. Approximate weight - 17.8 pounds
  7. What's their BEAM (behavior, energy, appetite, mood) - seems to be hungry all the time, maybe low energy but hard to tell.
  8. Diet - raw diet of venison, kangaroo and turkey. We blend wild blueberries, kale, aloe, turmeric, ginger, ground flax, coconut water and add that to his meals. Also started adding a pinch of vitamin c, l-lysine, drop of b12. Not sure what dosages we should be giving him. He has been given quite a bit of sweet potato lately as it seems to be a favorite of his and I cook them almost everyday. He also gets cucumbers, asparagus and banana, sometimes bit of apple. We follow Anthony William and he suggests pears for pancreas so we are starting those.
  9. Vaccination history / exposure to toxins, other medication - had all shots up to 16 weeks and nothing after that. Had a tick and flea treatment once. During his recent hospital stay, he was given pain, antacid, and antidiarrhea meds and an IV antibiotic.
  10. Primary problem, when it began and if there was anything else happening around that time - when he was a puppy he was given too much peanut butter in one sitting and vomited a few times. Ever since then he has been sensitive to high fat foods and will occasionally vomit. Recently he had to go get his teeth cleaned (non-anesthesia) so we gave him some cbd oil (thought it might help keep him calm) and he also happened to get extra drops of zinc in his food that morning. The next day is when he started having diarrhea and threw up a few times over 3 or 4 days before we had to take him to the emergency vet early in the morning as he seemed to be in a lot of pain and was weak. We think it might have been the combination of the stress from getting his teeth cleaned and what he consumed that day that triggered it. When he came back later that day we kept giving him the antacid and pain meds for 4 more days. We changed his food to one that was even lower in fat than we were giving him and started adding what is described above. It's been about a month since and just the last couple of days he seems to be extra thirsty and wants to drink coconut water, but not regular filtered water. He never usually drinks much in a day, it seems like he doesn't really like drinking regular water. Just today he drank an entire bowl of coconut water after coming back from a walk and we offered him regular water as well but he didn't take it. We also started him on freeze dried turkey bite treats today. How much coconut water is okay to give him? Should we get him evaluated by a vet for diabetes? When he was at the hospital they did bloodwork and saw that his glucose was elevated but weren't concerned about it. However, he had been eating mainly sweet potato for the last 4 days and just a bit of turkey so not sure if that was the reason for the elevated glucose level. I will try to insert his blood work results here: https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/...position=filename ="Jasper_MedicalRecord.pdf"
  11. Is the condition better or worse from exercise, heat, cold, time of day, certain foods, emotional upset, being touched, excitement, etc? - sometimes giving him raw bones results in him throwing up later in the early morning with bile and a piece of bone. it seems like maybe the high stress of getting his teeth cleaned could have triggered his pancreas or the extra zinc or cbd drops he got.
  12. Has any diagnostic work been done? Diagnosis if available (you can attach your diagnostic tests to the post if you have them) - (attached - it also shows his LIP levels that determined that it was pancreatitis).
  13. Current and previous treatment - (explained above). should we do anything different with his diet? are there any homeopathic remedies that could help him? should we feed him 3 times a day instead of 2?
  14. Other health concerns - reverse sneezing (usually triggered by barking but sometimes nothing at all triggers it), collapsed trachea (choking cough triggered by barking usually or running too much), oral health issues (he has some loose teeth), excessive hardwood floor licking (especially after a meal), and tear staining (had it since very young puppy, then ended up going away completely beginning of 2020, then it came back this june 2021, not sure why?)
I would be so grateful for any insight and advice you have for Jasper! Thank you so much!

@Dr. Jeff @Dr. Christina @Dr. Sara
 

Dr. Jeff

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Hey Sierra-

How's Jasper's BEAM (which is always the first question when evaluating a symptom)?

  1. How much coconut water is okay to give him?
1/4 cup as often as he wants it. It's hard to overdo it, but the more he drinks, the more he'll have to pee.
  1. Should we get him evaluated by a vet for diabetes?
Sure it is always a good idea to have a vet evaluation as part of you HMDM step 2 research.hmdm page 2.png
Sorry, this says "access denied" but you can also upload the results right here (use the "attach files" option).
  1. should we do anything different with his diet? are there any homeopathic remedies that could help him? should we feed him 3 times a day instead of 2?
His diet raw varied diet sounds good as long as each meat type has ground bones, organs, etc in the. If they are just muscle meats, then you'll need to add supplements like:




Yes, smaller more frequent meals might work better for maintenance. However, fasting altogether is the best way to support the pancreas.
  1. O and tear staining (had it since very young puppy, then ended up going away completely beginning of 2020, then it came back this june 2021, not sure why?)
Ah! This may be a great external indicator of mild internal imbalance (such as from allergies).

 

AlysonR

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Jun 21, 2020
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The hardwood floor licking after meals indicates, to me, a problem with the digestive system. When the vet checks him, have the vet look for tumors in the digestive track (including spleen and liver) via ultrasound. Because I've had 5 out of six of my dogs die from various types of cancer, I tend to see all issues in that light and, hopefully, that's not what this is, but something is clearly wrong. I don't know what blood work you had done, but hopefully it included a (normal?) cbc? The main thing you should know is that you should definitely get this checked thoroughly. So often I think I don't need to consult the vet because, if I do, they're going to tell me I'm worrying about nothing. I don't see this as 'nothing'. You also mention possible 'low energy'. This is another big clue, and one that is so hard to judge. With Magic, my dog who recently died of hemangiosarcoma of the spleen, I didn't notice that her energy level had dropped, but now that I look back on it, I see she did play with my other dog when she first came to us, 2 years ago, and that that stopped this past summer. So now I've been recording in my log the participation in high energy activities (fast walks, dog-dog playing, ball playing). I'm hoping I'll be able to notice low energy if/when it happens. All the best!
 

Sierra

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Joined
Oct 11, 2021
Messages
7
Hey Sierra-

How's Jasper's BEAM (which is always the first question when evaluating a symptom)?


1/4 cup as often as he wants it. It's hard to overdo it, but the more he drinks, the more he'll have to pee.

Sure it is always a good idea to have a vet evaluation as part of you HMDM step 2 research.hmdm page 2.png

Sorry, this says "access denied" but you can also upload the results right here (use the "attach files" option).

His diet raw varied diet sounds good as long as each meat type has ground bones, organs, etc in the. If they are just muscle meats, then you'll need to add supplements like:




Yes, smaller more frequent meals might work better for maintenance. However, fasting altogether is the best way to support the pancreas.

Ah! This may be a great external indicator of mild internal imbalance (such as from allergies).

Thank you! I attached the blood work results here. Let me know what you think. His BEAM seems normal I think? He is very food motivated and will bug us for treats and certain foods like sweet potatoes and asparagus when we have them, and always wants more. Not sure if his energy is low, but it's been a very uneventful year as I've been dealing with my own chronic health issues and have been mostly in bed. So I'm thinking he sleeps a little more because there's not much going on around the home, and he will often come hang out with me on the bed and sleep. But I feel like if I was more active and going out to do things he would be up for it. So I'm not sure, but he does sleep a lot. Thanks.
 

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Dr. Jeff

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Jasper's bloods look good to me overall!

I'm sorry Sierra to hear about your own health challenges. :(

Absolutely Alyson!! These are all useful early warning clues to Jasper's specific internal imbalance.👏👏

Sierra, are there any other recent test results that also show a high lipase?

Has he had a Spec CpL (a more specific blood test for pancreatitis)?

 

Sierra

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Joined
Oct 11, 2021
Messages
7
The hardwood floor licking after meals indicates, to me, a problem with the digestive system. When the vet checks him, have the vet look for tumors in the digestive track (including spleen and liver) via ultrasound. Because I've had 5 out of six of my dogs die from various types of cancer, I tend to see all issues in that light and, hopefully, that's not what this is, but something is clearly wrong. I don't know what blood work you had done, but hopefully it included a (normal?) cbc? The main thing you should know is that you should definitely get this checked thoroughly. So often I think I don't need to consult the vet because, if I do, they're going to tell me I'm worrying about nothing. I don't see this as 'nothing'. You also mention possible 'low energy'. This is another big clue, and one that is so hard to judge. With Magic, my dog who recently died of hemangiosarcoma of the spleen, I didn't notice that her energy level had dropped, but now that I look back on it, I see she did play with my other dog when she first came to us, 2 years ago, and that that stopped this past summer. So now I've been recording in my log the participation in high energy activities (fast walks, dog-dog playing, ball playing). I'm hoping I'll be able to notice low energy if/when it happens. All the best!
Thank you for your input, and sorry to hear you've lost so many dogs to cancer. It does frighten me to hear the possibility of tumors. Hoping that's not the case. Have any of your dogs ever done the floor licking? Sometimes he will also lick the floors not just after meals. Also, I've noticed that he often will lick around in the areas where a certain family member that has athlete's foot walks, which I should have mentioned in my original post. So I feel like he may just be smelling the fungus (yuck) and licking it? Hmm. Everyone we've asked seems to have a different possible explanation for this odd behavior. Thanks again.
 

Sierra

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Oct 11, 2021
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7
Jasper's bloods look good to me overall!

I'm sorry Sierra to hear about your own health challenges. :(

Absolutely Alyson!! These are all useful early warning clues to Jasper's specific internal imbalance.👏👏

Sierra, are there any other recent test results that also show a high lipase?

Has he had a Spec CpL (a more specific blood test for pancreatitis)?

Good to hear that his blood looks okay. And thank you, sometimes I wonder if he senses that I've been unwell and if it affects him negatively. We don't have any other recent test results that show a high lipase, and he hasn't had a Spec Cpl. Should we do that? And would it show pancreatitis if he isn't in a pancreatic attack presently? Also, do you think it's possible that the pancreas issues have a connection to his floor licking? Like a need to produce more saliva for digestion? He eats his food so quickly that he doesn't mix it with saliva. I know digestion starts in the mouth, although with dogs maybe it's different...? Just a thought.

Also, do you think what we're adding to his meals is good or would you suggest we take anything out or in different amounts? Thank you!

@Dr. Jeff
 
Last edited:

AlysonR

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I've never had a dog lick the floor, per se, but I have had dogs that have licked or eaten odd things. The last dog I lost (to hemangiosarcoma of the spleen) ate dirt the entire time I knew her (2 years of her 7-9 year life). She may have had the beginnings of her cancer before I met her, as my other dog was abnormally interested in her butt from day 1 -- and I've had that happen before, when my second dog had an anal sac adenocarcenoma and my other dog at the time wouldn't leave her butt alone (she was bleeding out the anus, as it turns out). I seem to recall the dog that died of cancer of the duodenum would often lick the couch or her bed. In any event, it reminds me a lot of horses that 'crib' when they feel digestive distress.
In any event, the normal blood work is a good sign, but it isn't definitive. But maybe the digestive distress (possibly) indicated by the floor licking has more to do with the pancreatitis? I guess I'd say you shouldn't discount the floor licking as a symptom. It may be a habit, now, but it may also be an indicator. I rationalize away symptoms far too often (he wasn't as energetic because it's been a hot summer, or 'she's lying on the hard surface to cool down -- instead of to comfort her upset belly', or 'he's interested in her rear end because she's intact (turns out she wasn't!)', or 'her stomach is starting to droop because the muscles have taken a beating from the operations (turned out it was the expansion of the tumor)'). You get the idea. Your rationalizations may be actual causes -- but take the symptoms seriously, first!
I hope you get to the bottom of it all.
 

Sierra

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Oct 11, 2021
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I've never had a dog lick the floor, per se, but I have had dogs that have licked or eaten odd things. The last dog I lost (to hemangiosarcoma of the spleen) ate dirt the entire time I knew her (2 years of her 7-9 year life). She may have had the beginnings of her cancer before I met her, as my other dog was abnormally interested in her butt from day 1 -- and I've had that happen before, when my second dog had an anal sac adenocarcenoma and my other dog at the time wouldn't leave her butt alone (she was bleeding out the anus, as it turns out). I seem to recall the dog that died of cancer of the duodenum would often lick the couch or her bed. In any event, it reminds me a lot of horses that 'crib' when they feel digestive distress.
In any event, the normal blood work is a good sign, but it isn't definitive. But maybe the digestive distress (possibly) indicated by the floor licking has more to do with the pancreatitis? I guess I'd say you shouldn't discount the floor licking as a symptom. It may be a habit, now, but it may also be an indicator. I rationalize away symptoms far too often (he wasn't as energetic because it's been a hot summer, or 'she's lying on the hard surface to cool down -- instead of to comfort her upset belly', or 'he's interested in her rear end because she's intact (turns out she wasn't!)', or 'her stomach is starting to droop because the muscles have taken a beating from the operations (turned out it was the expansion of the tumor)'). You get the idea. Your rationalizations may be actual causes -- but take the symptoms seriously, first!
I hope you get to the bottom of it all.
Okay, thank you for replying. I appreciate your advice! I will continue to investigate and probably get some things checked out by a vet.
 

AlysonR

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We're rooting for the two of you. I do hope it's nothing serious -- and maybe you can get to the point where he's no longer licking the floor?!?
 

HA! Support

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Good to hear that his blood looks okay. And thank you, sometimes I wonder if he senses that I've been unwell and if it affects him negatively. We don't have any other recent test results that show a high lipase, and he hasn't had a Spec Cpl. Should we do that? And would it show pancreatitis if he isn't in a pancreatic attack presently? Also, do you think it's possible that the pancreas issues have a connection to his floor licking? Like a need to produce more saliva for digestion? He eats his food so quickly that he doesn't mix it with saliva. I know digestion starts in the mouth, although with dogs maybe it's different...? Just a thought.

Also, do you think what we're adding to his meals is good or would you suggest we take anything out or in different amounts? Thank you!

@Dr. Jeff
@Dr. Jeff Do you have any feedback for Sierra regarding these questions?
 

Dr. Jeff

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Thanks for asking MacKenzie, and for guiding me back to this thread.

Yes, I do (have feedback):

he hasn't had a Spec Cpl. Should we do that? And would it show pancreatitis if he isn't in a pancreatic attack presently?
Yes, I would still do the spec(ific) canine pancreatic lipase test. It's a pretty sensitive and accurate blood test that accurately reflects pancreatic inflammation and pancreatitis.

Also, do you think it's possible that the pancreas issues have a connection to his floor licking?

Yes, absolutely (IMHO)! But it's probably not anything physically "wrong".

My own (different) opinion is that his pancreatic symptoms are secondary to energetic cellular changes in response to environmental and internal stressors. Ideally, they'd be addressed at the cellular level by using details about his symptoms as clues to what to do.
 

Sierra

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Thanks for asking MacKenzie, and for guiding me back to this thread.

Yes, I do (have feedback):


Yes, I would still do the spec(ific) canine pancreatic lipase test. It's a pretty sensitive and accurate blood test that accurately reflects pancreatic inflammation and pancreatitis.



Yes, absolutely (IMHO)! But it's probably not anything physically "wrong".

My own (different) opinion is that his pancreatic symptoms are secondary to energetic cellular changes in response to environmental and internal stressors. Ideally, they'd be addressed at the cellular level by using details about his symptoms as clues to what to do.
Thank you! I will get that blood test done. I did have a few more questions that I'd love to get your opinion on if you don't mind.
1. I'm a little unsure what exactly you mean by "his pancreatic symptoms are secondary to energetic cellular changes" and how we would address them at the "cellular level" - could you please elaborate a bit on that?
2. We're not sure how to go about feeding him raw meaty bones - sometimes he throws up usually in the early morning on days we give them to him. Sometimes there's a piece of bone in the vomit so I'm not sure if he just isn't able to break it all down. We hold it with a wrench for him to chew on. Why might he throw up from this? What kind of bones should we give him? Do turkey wings with the skin have too much fat?
3. Is there a homeopathic you would recommend for his (likely) pancreatitis if he has another attack?
Thank you so much :)

@Dr. Jeff
 

Dr. Jeff

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I'm starting clinics right now Sierra but maybe you can browse these articles to get a feel for the approach.

Also, the Holistic Fun-damentals resource in your member area is a great place to start. If you haven't already done so, please read that first. Also:




 

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