Chicken Bones and Loose Stool

[LisaP]

Hi! Two of our dogs have been on raw food diets since the beginning of April. One is a Great Pyrenees and the other is an African Mastiff. I introduced the raw food slowly with soft cooked ground beef and turkey and then went completely raw. I've noticed big changes in their stool since changing their food. They went from being somewhat constipated to loose stool and diarrhea. They would wake me up in the middle of the night to go outside. Yesterday, our one dog threw up what looked to be an almost whole chicken bone. I'm not sure how she could have swallowed it, but she did. They have had chicken quarters, chicken thighs and chicken legs, all raw. I haven't cut any of them up for them because I watch them eat and they are chewing the bones, so I didn't think it was a problem.

I'm not quite sure what to do at this point. Dr. Jeff recommended adding pumpkin to their food, which I will do. Are chicken legs a bad idea? Should I stay away from the bones for a while and only feed ground meat with a calcium supplement? Could the diarrhea be a result of the raw food?

Thanks for your help.
Lisa

 

[Dr. Jeff]

@ginnyw and @Nicci ?

 

[ginnyw]

Hi! Two of our dogs have been on raw food diets since the beginning of April. One is a Great Pyrenees and the other is an African Mastiff. I introduced the raw food slowly with soft cooked ground beef and turkey and then went completely raw. I've noticed big changes in their stool since changing their food. They went from being somewhat constipated to loose stool and diarrhea. They would wake me up in the middle of the night to go outside. Yesterday, our one dog threw up what looked to be an almost whole chicken bone. I'm not sure how she could have swallowed it, but she did. They have had chicken quarters, chicken thighs and chicken legs, all raw. I haven't cut any of them up for them because I watch them eat and they are chewing the bones, so I didn't think it was a problem.

I'm not quite sure what to do at this point. Dr. Jeff recommended adding pumpkin to their food, which I will do. Are chicken legs a bad idea? Should I stay away from the bones for a while and only feed ground meat with a calcium supplement? Could the diarrhea be a result of the raw food?

Thanks for your help.
Lisa

 

[ginnyw]

Yep. I'd forget about pumpkin, soft stuff, cooking, and just feed larger pieces. These are LARGE dogs, and they will swallow anything they can whole. If you were to feed half chickens, they would slow down - a bit! - and chew the big pieces before swallowing. They can swallow a leg, etc, without a blink, and then the long bone sits around whole, passes whole, and sweeps the soft stuff through the bowel with it. They may get more used to smaller pieces after some practice, but right now, it's larger they need. You can feed a soft meal one day, and a half chicken the next, if you prefer. They don't need everything each day. Remember that in the wild, a dog will gorge when he can, and then go without, or with very little, until another antelope is killed. Eating quickly is survival, and anything that can get swallowed whole will be.

 

[Dr. Christina]

Other than waking you at night, how is their BEAM? Sometimes probiotics, digestive enzymes or a short term of fecal transplants may be needed if Ginny's great suggestions of big pieces does not work.

As long as their BEAM is great - not to worry too much as they get used to eating the real ancestral diet. I am still, after 30 years of raw feeding , amazed at what they can eat, vomit up, pass in the stool and still be brilliantly healthy in all ways.

Dr. christina

 

[LisaP]

Yep. I'd forget about pumpkin, soft stuff, cooking, and just feed larger pieces. These are LARGE dogs, and they will swallow anything they can whole. If you were to feed half chickens, they would slow down - a bit! - and chew the big pieces before swallowing. They can swallow a leg, etc, without a blink, and then the long bone sits around whole, passes whole, and sweeps the soft stuff through the bowel with it. They may get more used to smaller pieces after some practice, but right now, it's larger they need. You can feed a soft meal one day, and a half chicken the next, if you prefer. They don't need everything each day. Remember that in the wild, a dog will gorge when he can, and then go without, or with very little, until another antelope is killed. Eating quickly is survival, and anything that can get swallowed whole will be.

Thank you. I will try larger pieces.

 

[LisaP]

Other than waking you at night, how is their BEAM? Sometimes probiotics, digestive enzymes or a short term of fecal transplants may be needed if Ginny's great suggestions of big pieces does not work.

As long as their BEAM is great - not to worry too much as they get used to eating the real ancestral diet. I am still, after 30 years of raw feeding , amazed at what they can eat, vomit up, pass in the stool and still be brilliantly healthy in all ways.

Dr. christina

Thank you Dr. Christina.

Other than inconveniencing me, their BEAM is great. I do add Kefir to their meals when I have it. I have also added a probiotic (capsule form) when I first started with the raw diet, but then I ran out and never bought any more. I wasn't sure if it was really making a difference. I don't exactly know what fecal transplants are?

I'll pick up some larger chicken pieces this weekend and hopefully that will help.

 

[LisaP]

Thank you. I will try larger pieces.

Hello,

I went back to the chicken quarters, they didn't have any whole chickens left last night, or any organ meats. The quarters were a really good deal. I gave them to the dogs and I watched them eat. Te'a the Pyr, who doesn't have many teeth left, seemed to be fine chewing it. It took her a little while, but she did it. Naya, the mastiff, ate the thigh part and then regurgitated the entire thing on the floor and then proceeded to eat it again. I don't know if she ended up actually chewing any of it. Is that normal? Is the quarter still too small for her?

Another question, is there ever a time when eating the bones doesn't work out and you just supplement with calcium? I know it won't help with their teeth, but I'm just concerned about swallowing the whole bones, and the raw chicken on the floor.

Thank you again for your help.
Lisa